Yesterday, I tried to outline a possible arm of Season 5 of Lost: the events that would lead to John Locke's expulsion from the Island. There obviously will be other strands of plot throughout the Island portion of the season, but all roads will eventually lead to John Locke leaving the Island as a broken man.

But what about the off-Island activities? What of the Oceanic 6? When last we saw them, Sayid took Hurley into hiding, Sun was proposing a business venture with Charles Widmore, and Kate was trying to explain to Aaron that Uncle Jack was a raving alcoholic with a penchant for grunge music. And yet, Benjamin Linus insists that these six, plus John Locke, all have to return to the Island to set things right. So obviously the second arm of Season 5 will involve Jack, himself a broken man, seeing if he can't get the old band back together again for one last tour.

The obvious question, however, is, "Why do they have to get back at all?" One could of course look at this as another Benjamin Linus long con, but I think the long con's already happened. As outlined yesterday, I propose to look at Season 4 as an elaborate misdirection on behalf of an unknown entity to unseat Jacob, Benjamin Linus, but perhaps most important, Jacob's true heir on the island: Aaron.

John Locke once told Jack Shephard that everyone on Oceanic 815 came to the Island for a reason. And while that may be true, there is definitely a pecking order in terms of whom the Island really wanted to come. I'd place Locke, Jack, and Claire on the upper eschelon, Sun/Jin somewhere in the middle, and Frogurt dead last. Point is this: it's too simplistic to simply assign equal importance to all the survivors in terms of the grand story of either the Island or Lost itself. The show has consistently demonstrated, on a dramatic and metatheatrical level, that some people are simply more important that others.

Claire didn't always seem as a centerpiece in the Island's vision, but I think Season 4 corrected this incorrect judgement: both she and Aaron are EXTREMELY central to the story of Lost at this point of the game. In fact, in lieu of what we've seen of them this season, Ben's obsession with fertility, coupled with his love/hate relationship with Jacob, makes a heckuva lot more sense now than it did at the end of Season 3. At that point, I assumed Ben's work was working AGAINST Jacob, but now, I'm not so sure he wasn't do exactly as he was told by the ghostly figure from the cabin.

All that work to produce a child may have in fact been work designed in order to produce the literal rebirth of Jacob.

Think about the "Drawing of the Three" scene from the episode "Cabin Fever." Think about Richard's seeming agelessness. Think about Widmore's assertion that Ben took away what was rightfully his. And then think about these figures less as people and more as repositories: temporary housing for eternal entities waging a constant war. But while the spirit may be eternal, the body is not, and as such, a constant, ever changing set of physical vessels.

However, in this particular iteration, for whatever reason, a new vessel cannot be produced. Perhaps it's due to the "incident" oft mentioned on Dharma initiation videos. In any case, "Jacob," the name for the spirit more than the body it once inhabited, is stuck in limbo, unable to die but also unable to live. He needs a new body, only pregnant women now die. Desperate, Ben recruits Juliet, only to find she cannot help either. Luckily, for all involved, help comes in the form of a pregnant woman on an airplane that so happens to crash land on the Island.

Of course, nothing happens by accident, and as such, one can easily view Aaron as the long-awaited vessel for Jacob. And as we now know, more than one party is privy to events on the Island, whether they be in the past, present, or future. I've already discussed this point at length, but I think Christian Shephard, the "good" Christian, knew the events surrounding Aaron coming down the pipe, and may have drank himself to death, having surrendered to fate.

The Christian Shephard that tried to warn his daughter in Australia is the same Christian Shephard seen in Jack's private practice, and is the same seen in the mobisode "So It Begins." But there's another Christian, or a vision of Christian, that bears little to no resemblance to the flawed but ultimately caring father figure at the apex of Lost. That figure seeks to separate Claire from Aaron in order to separate Jacob from Aaron, thus preventing him from passing onto the next generation. If Jacob cannot pass on, then the centuries' old war ends, and the Island loses.

That is, of course, unless the Oceanic 6, plus 1, plus Ben, plus more than likely a 43-year old Walt, can return to make things right.

What do you think Aaron's role will be in Lost? Is he as important, or in fact more important, than the rest of the Oceanic 6?

Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.

Comments

Aaron is definitely a keystone. how that will play out is anybody's guess though. he could be the keystone because he does something for the Island, or maybe he's the keystone because he inspires someone else to do something for the Island. he could father someone who does something for the Island. he could have a way cool pet polar bear that does something cool for the Island. i think you get the picture. any number of things could make Aaron the key. unless i'm totally wrong, which is quite possible. :-)

still think it would be way badass if Abbadon turned out to be Walt.

mri | Jun 9, 2008 8:18:33 PM | #

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I'd be interested to see where other people put the importance of those you were on 815 [b]and[/b] at one point were cast regulars but have since been such as: Nikki and Paolo, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie, Shannon and Boone and anyone else who I may have forgotton that was killed [b]prior[/b] to season 4.

Also, I'm interested in them showing/us seeing the following scenarios at the beginning of S5:

a) Faraday's and Charlotte's reunion as well as Daniel's realization that he has to recaliberize how to go to and from the island and figuring out how to get something close enough to the island to go to fro to (I hope that was readable); -> This assumes that Daniel's raft was in the 'island bubble' that was part of the island's relocation -> for this to be true this concludes that Jin is dead and unfortunately this is the conclusion that I have reached

b) is Daniel's raft isn't in the island's bubble and therefore is able to find Jin and save him. From there we see how they too try to find their way back to the island -> except they are doing this in early 2005 rather than sometime in 2007 as the O6 are doing. -> It seems unlikely that Darlton would reduce the impact of getting back to the island by doing 2 separate treks at the same time at different stage of time.

Rishi | Jun 9, 2008 10:15:46 PM | #

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Just thought of this, we know that Ben had a way to and from the island in the sub prior to Locke blowing it to smithereens, I'm wondering if Jacob will let Locke know of a way so that they can get their off island spies to relay their info to them and so that they can bring new people to the island to replace some of the specialists that have since been killed -> ie. a new Ethan is going to be needed etc.

Rishi | Jun 9, 2008 10:18:33 PM | #

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Well, lucky for those left behind on the island, they still have at least one doctor, Juliet.
I can't even begin to imagine what "bad things" have been happening since the 06 escaped but, I'm pretty sure they will need a doctor.
Locke and Aaron seem to have a connection. Charlie was jealous of it back in season 1 & 2. Claire has always been more in the Locke camp than the Jack camp from the very beginning. Locke made her the cradle for Aaron. Nice of him but, what if there were more to it than that? Locke punched Charlie repeatedly for thinking he had kidnapped Aaron. I think, maybe, John Locke is meant to be Aaron's protector. Charlie thought that was his job but, it never was, it was always Locke. Ben must have fallen out of Jacob's good graces, Locke has always been a candidate for greatness but, has never quite measured up. The Christian, Jack, Claire & Aaron family has been significant throughout the series and will ultimately end with Aaron being the most important player of all.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 6:22:36 AM | #

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I disagree that some people are more important than others. I'd like to think the Island holds them all equally important, but the duration of their stay depends entirely on the function they are needed to perform.

Just as an example, Eko was an extremely important character, not only because served as a link from the 815 survivors to the Beechcraft of lost souls (well one lost soul, really), but because he ultimately lead Locke along the path toward finding his faith and accepting his destiny.

Casting issues for the show aside, if you watch the DVDs not knowing anything about the production side of the show, you could draw the conclusion that Eko's main purpose was fulfilled when Locke rescued him and having reunited with his dead brother, had fulfilled the Island's purpose for him and could be let go.

That aside, I'm intrigued by the idea that Aaron could be a vessel for Jacob. I'm equally intrigued by the idea of Aaron being a "chosen one" that will restore balance to the forc-... I mean, Island.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 6:29:43 AM | #

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BTW, I'm pissed that Charlie seems to have sacrificed himself for nothing. Claire was supposed to leave the island on the helicopter with Aaron according to Desmond's vision.
Desmond told Charlie that he saw Claire and her baby get into a helicopter and leave the island. This has not happened. I hope it still can happen in the future or else that whole story line with Charlie dying in such a dramatic fashion in the finale was just stupid and did not live up to LOST standards.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 7:42:35 AM | #

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And did you notice, aside from everyone immediately forgetting about Charlie, Claire never got Charlie's letter or the ring he left Aaron? Like, that would have been such a simple, nice thing to include in the season premier and they totally missed the opportunity.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 8:05:11 AM | #

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FROM LOSTPEDIA:
Charlie began to write a list of the five best things in his life, #1 being The night he met Claire. While Jack explained his plans to combat the others, Charlie noticed Desmond showing signs of having had a
At first Desmond denied it, but later told Charlie that the vision showed Claire and Aaron getting aboard a helicopter, but Charlie would have to die for this to happen. Desmond told Charlie that he goes into the station, throws a switch, and then drowns. After being given this information, Charlie volunteerd to swim into the station. Later, Charlie put Aaron in his crib and told him to take care of his mum, that he loves him, and passed on his D.S. Ring. Claire asked Charlie why he didn't tell her that he was going down to the station. Charlie told her not to worry about him while he was gone. Knowing his fate, he gave Claire their final kiss. Desmond and Charlie took Alexandra's canoe and followed the cable to the station. After Charlie finished his list, he gave it to Desmond. The Scotsman volunteered to take Charlie's place underwater; Charlie seemed to accept at first, but then knocked him out with an oar.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 8:19:54 AM | #

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Oops, I deleted some of that by mistake. That should read: Charlie noticed Desmond having signs of having had a vision.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 8:21:04 AM | #

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There's no reason to think what Desmond saw simply hasn't happened yet. We know Aaron has to return to the Island.

Yes, it's a bit of a cheat, but then again, visions are tricky business.

I guess I'd just be shocked if that vision doesn't get eventually paid off. For a show with such close-knit continuity, that would be a whopper of an error.

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 8:28:05 AM | #

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Except that Aaron would be about 4-5 years old when they finally got on that helicopter. Desmond's vision intimates that Claire and the baby escape, not Claire and the toddler.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 8:31:17 AM | #

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I'll have to look at the sequence again, but I think you're being a teensy bit literal/stubborn about this.

Again, they could totally abandon this plot line. (I hope not.) The "vision" could have come from the same force that kidnapped Jacob. (Possible, intriguing.) Or, in future Lost, which is in roughly late 2007/early 2008, all six go back, rescue Claire, and she carts off her toddler child.

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 8:40:54 AM | #

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Maybe Claire has another baby??????????? Hey, it could happen. Unfortunately, we don't get to see Claire until season 6 as her contract is on hold according to reprts I've read.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 8:43:20 AM | #

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Just playing devil's advocate. I really do hope his vision plays out in some fashion. I want to believe Charlie sacrificed himself for something good.

Chris, I've heard we will see Claire next season, but not very much.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 8:46:12 AM | #

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What was the warning that Christian gave to Claire?

Tim | Jun 10, 2008 9:04:56 AM | #

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i would HOPE Des's vision of Claire and Aaron plays out somehow. i mean sheesh. if that gets dropped that would be a HUGE continuity error. don't see how that's going to happen since i'm firmly in the "Claire's dead" camp. hadn't thought about the implications of Des's vision on that though. hmmmmm, will have to chase my tail on that for a bit...

mri | Jun 10, 2008 9:22:10 AM | #

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I really don't get how Claire could be dead.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 9:50:56 AM | #

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she's hanging out with dead people, so i'm going with at least "dead-ish."

mri | Jun 10, 2008 9:55:13 AM | #

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She's drunk.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 10:03:12 AM | #

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Jeff,
I guess the apples don't really fall far from the Shepard tree, Like Father (and brother), Like Daughter.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 10:07:51 AM | #

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Of course the Aaron (as a baby) on the helicopter with Claire scenario could have been changed by subsequent events. Most visions have 'wiggle room'. I'm sure the writers will come up with something good--I have faith! (vs. science)

Barb | Jun 10, 2008 10:11:52 AM | #

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Walt has appeared to Locke and Shannon...he was not dead. Was this really Walt or the Island/Smokey? Jack sees his father...we know he is dead. Kate sees Claire...is Claire dead or perhaps she has special Waltlike abilities?

Tim | Jun 10, 2008 10:15:11 AM | #

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...and I'm sure the writers read all the blogs 'religiously' to see what we catch so they can 'fix' things. We do serve a purpose!

Barb | Jun 10, 2008 10:18:19 AM | #

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Of Things Lost-Ish (OTLI):

Speaking of vessels, now would be a good time to pop in your DVD's of Donnie Darko (Directors Cut) and start thinking about time travel and vessels.

Ponder the signifigance of time travel, worm holes, and, ultimately, sacrifice.

Brian of the North | Jun 10, 2008 10:21:42 AM | #

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So, Ryan, following your Aaron-as-key-to-Jacob's-plans theory, what do you make of his List?

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 10:29:31 AM | #

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I have no idea. I tend to be about as lost as to what is REALLY going on as those on the island. However, unlike most shows that have me this lost, I enjoy it! The makers have the weird ability to totally confound and confuse people watching the show, without making us give up on the show. I've never, in my 46 years, had a series or movie be able to do that, and keep me interested. I've also never seen better usage of flashbacks/forwards, either. Usually, those take away from the momentum. Not on this show. They add to the momentum. I love this roller-coaster ride!

Dr. Rock | Jun 10, 2008 10:32:37 AM | #

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Where does Walt fit into all this? He was clearly someone the island deemed important in the early days. Perhaps being young he was a possible vessel for Jacob before Aaron was born?

Allie | Jun 10, 2008 11:02:51 AM | #

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Ryan, I'm going to laugh in your face when it's revealed Frogurt is the true master of the island.

Andy | Jun 10, 2008 11:19:12 AM | #

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Andy: that will be the "Scooby Doo" ending of Lost.

Jack: Now, let's see who's behind this mask!
Hurley: Dude, it's Frogurt.
Frogurt: And I woulda gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddlin' Oceanic 6ers!

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 12:28:04 PM | #

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Allie,

Ben told Michael that they'd gotten more than they bargained for when they took Walt. Mrs. Klugh said that Walt was special and Walt, himself told Michael that they were doing tests on him.
Walt is definately special and hopefully TPTB will re-visit Walt's abilities in the next 2 seasons.

Chris | Jun 10, 2008 12:39:03 PM | #

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Chris: Agreed, I think without Walt returning to the Island's just about impossible.

Then again, he might be too busy getting senior citizen discounts at the local multiplex to actually help the Oceanic 6.

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 12:41:09 PM | #

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Maybe he'll send his grandson, instead.

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 12:53:26 PM | #

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Doesn't it seem like the island happenings run in the family? After reading this post, it kinda reminds me of Heroes, with the new heroes parents once taking their roles. When Locke was born, we saw the connection between his grandmother and Alpert. Also, I'm pretty sure Locke's father has been on the island before. Then, Widmore, Penny's dad (Des's pops in law to be??) was once in control of the island. Throw in Paik's seeming connection to the island, and the whole Christian and his two kids, and things start to repeat themselves. It's these families that have long pasts with the island. Along with the vessel idea, the next generation of the family will set up future plans. Plus, with Walt, Aaron, and Sun's baby, there's another generation to connect with the island.

A-Rob | Jun 10, 2008 1:19:55 PM | #

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A-Rob: I had similiar thoughts a few months ago:

http://blog.zap2it.com/lost/2008/02/lost-generation.html

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 1:28:16 PM | #

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Wow, sorry bout that. I must have just had my own flashback.

A-Rob | Jun 10, 2008 1:34:27 PM | #

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Ha, dude, why be sorry? Not like I have a monopoly on ideas about Lost :)

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 1:44:29 PM | #

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I wanna know when we'll get a Cerberus/Vincent faceoff. Can we make a top 10 list of most anticipated scenes?

Jeff | Jun 10, 2008 1:48:31 PM | #

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Funny you mention that, Jeff. Just read a book called "Heart Shaped Box" that reminds me a lot of Lost, and features dogs as a predominant weapon against a ghost. Hrm.....

Ryan | Jun 10, 2008 2:19:23 PM | #

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As far as the Claire/Desmond's vision controversy: Desmond had course-corrected before to prevent Charlie from getting killed. Perhaps, through the course of events he changed that vision. It still may happen, but the how and the why have changed.

Walt, now that he is 30 years older, should come back into play with the 'special' storyline. Not sure if Walt is Abaddon, but both should have a prominent role in the future of the show.

Shaggysteve | Jun 10, 2008 3:54:51 PM | #

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Well, I agree that Walt as Abaddon would be a total shocker, but my brain --albeit elderly and feeble (and turned into swiss cheese by small children)-- can't quite work through the "time travel" issues related to that one. How could Walt --on Island, a young boy-- visit Locke in the past as Abaddon?

I love sci-fi and I'm not a hard core "this-has-to-make sense/be-possible-or-I'll-throw-in-the-towel" kinda girl, but that little issue is kind of a stumper. Any theories from you all on how this could be explained?

If that option doesn't work out, my hope (as I expressed yesterday) is that Abaddon is an "Ancient One" such as Richard and has a long history with the island and its people. Maybe he had to "donkey wheel" it out of there long ago and can't go back.

Interestink, verrry, interestink!

djc | Jun 10, 2008 4:47:23 PM | #

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Nothing to do with theories, but, Ryan, you "don't have a 'monopoly' on Lost ideas"--another game mentioned!

Barb | Jun 10, 2008 6:18:31 PM | #

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Here's something that's still bothering me: didn't Ben say that if he moved the island he could NEVER come back? Of course he could be lying, but why would he? Unless he somehow wanted locke to die...

Oh, by the way, there's no way the O6 are gonna take 35 year old Walt with them to the island. They know michael is dead, there's no point in torturing the kid/guy/man.

sin laden | Jun 10, 2008 6:55:16 PM | #

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I read Heart-Shaped Box (it's by Joe Hill, in case anyone's interested in picking it up...it's pretty good, but I've definitely read better) a few months ago, and I agree...the dog-as-ghost-weapon is a keen idea. But what else can you expect from Stephen King's son? And the guy used to coach Little League...*shudder*.

Barb, if Ryan can somehow work the game "Settlers of Kataan" into a Lost reference, I will buy you whatever your favorite ice cream flavor is.

Dark Disciple | Jun 10, 2008 7:35:11 PM | #

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Whoops, that should be "Settlers of Catan," not "Kataan." The latter place was from a fantasy series I read many moons ago.

Dark Disciple | Jun 10, 2008 7:36:23 PM | #

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We seem to be expecting certain plot payoffs in season 5, but remember that there have been many things that took a couple seasons before we got satisfaction. My point is: The big return to the island may be in season 6, where the whole story wraps up as everyone completes the work the island wants them to do.
I think season 5 will cover lots of 2005 thru '08, setting up a merge in the final season of flash backs and flash forwards - similar to what Damages (on FX) did.
There is so much: Locke and the Others; the Juliet group; the Charlotte group; the 3 years of "terrible things"; the O-6; Ben's hunt for Penny (don't forget his special assasin); and lots more.
I'm not suggesting a conventional linear story of 3 yrs; just that there's lots of ground to cover back and forth and maybe we shouldn't expect the Locke and O-6 payoffs right away.

Other Jerry | Jun 10, 2008 8:04:27 PM | #

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DD, I'm really hoping he can work that one in--my favorite flavor of ice cream is 'butter' pecan. (and I'm not just making that up!)

Barb | Jun 10, 2008 9:13:13 PM | #

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ooo, Settlers of Catan! Such a fun game....

Ryan could work in so many game references (dominoes, marbles, stratego, Trouble, etc.), but Catan is a tricky one. Not sure he could effectively get "Candyland" in there, either! ;)

djc | Jun 11, 2008 3:01:37 AM | #

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Chutes and Ladders! The Helicopter running out of gas and crashing into the ocean would be the giant slide and the Frozen Donkey Wheel would be the giant ladder.

Tim | Jun 11, 2008 6:09:18 AM | #

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Perhaps Desmond's vision was that he got on the helicopter HIMSELF and finally went back home to Penny. Perhaps he was acting selfishly when he told Charlie he needed to flip the switch and die. Perhaps this is also why he refused to go back to the island with Sayid because he knew he had to stay on the freighter in order to get home to Penny.

Rocky | Jun 11, 2008 6:12:35 AM | #

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Other Jerry, something tells me we won't be experiencing 3 years of Island-story to catch up to the O6.

I have a feeling the Island moved in time as well as space. Especially if it moves forward in time, they wouldn't have to cover 3 years of story.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 6:40:38 AM | #

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I wonder how the conversation will go when Ben asks Sayid to kill Penny (who he's already been introduced to).

Brian of the North | Jun 11, 2008 6:47:12 AM | #

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Hopefully that'll be when Sayid realizes Ben's lost it.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 6:59:42 AM | #

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i can see how this'll play out:

BEN: "Sayid, I have your next errand."

SAYID: "Yes, Ben. Who do you want to me to eliminate?"

BEN: "Penelope Widmore."

Sayid leans on a chair, kicks both of his feet up and kills Ben with that uber-cool scissor-legs move. He calmly walks out of the vet's office and informs the people waiting that the office is closed.

mri | Jun 11, 2008 7:45:25 AM | #

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Interesting. Sayid, in the future is working for Ben. Does Ben tell him that his goal is to kill Penelope Widmore as an "eye for an eye" revenge against Charles Widmore? I highly doubt Sayid would be so inclined to do Ben's bidding if he knew Ben plans to kill Penny.

Chris | Jun 11, 2008 8:07:16 AM | #

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They've certainly set up Sayid as knowing Penny is the love of Desmond's life. I think this is where he'll refuse Ben.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 8:16:04 AM | #

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At least, I hope.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 8:16:32 AM | #

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Black Rock = Slave Ship

Widmore = Salty Sea Captain?

Abaddon = Slave?

Could it be that Widmore was the Captain...or first mate on the Black Rock and Abaddon was one of the slaves onboard? I know this brings up a lot of time-related questions, but it just occured to me.

Dunno. Got myself 7 or 8 months of pondering to do, so I'm throwing all my wild theories against the wall to see if anything sticks. So far all I've got is a nice pile of trash to pick up off the floor.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 8:38:05 AM | #

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Oh, meant to say that I think Abaddon has/had a seperate agenda from Widmore.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 8:42:23 AM | #

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Oh, meant to say that I think Abaddon has/had a seperate agenda from Widmore.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 8:42:28 AM | #

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There was something I was agreeing with Barb about...oh, Desmond's vision. Take it as true when he saw it, but, as she mentioned, subsequent events may have changed what eventually happened. Even so, I still think of Charlie's death as heroic because he sacrificed himself to bring about something good.

I'm also of the opinion that the Island moved in time. In fact, I think it ONLY moved in time, not place. Though I'm not wedded to the latter theory.

C'mon, people. Walt is not THAT old.

meggins | Jun 11, 2008 9:01:21 AM | #

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Yep, Meggins, I agree.

I believe Walt to be roughly 28.... no more. To imply that he is 37 or ready for social scurity is just silly.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 9:25:15 AM | #

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I'm not a supporter of Widmore having come from the Black Rock. I think his ties to the Island are solely through the Hanso Foundation and the DHARMA Initiative.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 9:33:33 AM | #

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I seem to remember that the Black Rock, even though it is a slave ship, may not have actually been carrying slaves at the time. It may have been en route to Africa to exchange gold or other treasures for slaves at the time. Which shows yet another connection the Island has to Africa.

Someone mentioned, elsewhere I believe, that the Island may or may not be the Garden of Eden. Civilization was thought to have begun in northern parts of Africa. Maybe the Island is where civilization began, and it had to stay in constant motion to keep it protected. This then furthers the Faith vs. Science debate. Some people would say man-kind was created by God or some higher force, while others would say man-kind was just a part of evolution.

Shaggysteve | Jun 11, 2008 9:38:51 AM | #

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The Black Rock had the bodies of slaves still shackled when the A-Team found it in Season 1.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 9:46:23 AM | #

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Things like boats and planes land on the Island all the time. They each bring with them something or someone the Island needs, or that someone on the Island will need in the future.

It is not implausible to think Abbadon came on board the Black Rock anymore than it is to think that the plane Eko's brother died on would wind up on the Island and in a place where Eko himself could find it.

Everything and everyone on the Island is connected in some way. Some have been revealed, like Jack and Claire or the history of Richard knowing Locke. Some are small connections like Hurley owning the box factory in which Locke worked. Others have yet to be revealed.

And BTW, who the heck is Frogurt? (I know about the Simpsons frozen yoghurt reference.)

AdSlinger | Jun 11, 2008 10:04:56 AM | #

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How about Widmore as the Captain of the boat and Richard as the First Mate. Richard kept notes on the Island and that is why Widmore wanted to buy it so badly at the auction. I could also see Abbadon as a slave on the ship.

Tim | Jun 11, 2008 10:06:16 AM | #

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Frogurt is about as minor a character as you can get on Lost, and therefore, constantly mentioned here in a sarcastic manner:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Neil_%22Frogurt%22

He apparently had a frogurt business, had the hots for Libby, and has only actually been seen in a mobisode.

So, clearly, he's the Biggest of Bads.

Ryan | Jun 11, 2008 10:09:34 AM | #

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Captain of the Black Rock was Magnus Hanso, not Charles Widmore.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 11:43:31 AM | #

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I could go along with the idea of Black Rock being "just" a slave ship (given the evidence found therein), but there's just one problem with it...given what happened on the Amistad, do you really think that a bunch of slave-runners (especially if Widmore was the Captain) would want to have readily-accessible dynamite available in the hold in the event of a rebellion? Sure, by the time the ship got to where The Island popped out of wherever, the slaves on board might've been weakened by their horrific treatment and all, but still...several boxes of explosives potentially in the hands of really, really pissed off potential slaves? The slave-runners must have been complete idiots, then, especially if (as some have suggested) Abbadon was himself a slave. He is one bad BTRWRTH-er, and I wouldn't have put it past him to blow up the entire ship. Then again, now that I think on it...maybe that dynamite WAS used for more nefarious-purposes by the captives. Hmmm...dammit, now I have to rethink that entire scenario. Ah, well, could be worse...Stephen King's book Cell could come true and the entire infrastructure be wiped out by The Pulse, and we never find out what happens. Wouldn't that just suck...

And I'm partial to pralines & cream myself, Barb, but butter pecan is up there about number 3 or so on my list of favorite flavors. Now I'm getting hungry, lol.

Dark Disciple | Jun 11, 2008 11:45:06 AM | #

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Jeff: so absolutely, positively, 100% no chance that "Charles Widmore" wasn't always his name? Jeremy Bentham and Dean Moriarity would beg to differ.

Not saying I think Hanso=Widmore , but I can't rule it out, either.

Ryan | Jun 11, 2008 12:30:05 PM | #

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Have only read about 1/2 the comments so far, but I had two thoughts I wanted to put out there before I forget...

1. If Ben's fixation on fertility really was due to Jacob's orders, it raises the question of what Alpert is really up to. He definitely didn't seem to approve of it, in that scene where he gives Locke the file on Sawyer.

2. About Walt: Kids change dramatically in even just a year, esp at that age. If 'present day' Lost is really 2007 or 2008, I just don't see a problem with Walt having grown so much. It's roughly the same gap of time (3yrs) as in real life, so you can't say it isn't realistic.

DanC | Jun 11, 2008 12:38:30 PM | #

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Yes, but when the blast door map says...

"Known final resting place of Magnus Hanso/Black Rock"

...I think it's safe to say Magnus Hanso is dead on the Island, so he couldn't be an alias.

I just really don't like the idea of Widmore being related to the Black Rock in any way other than his interest in it as an outside party.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 12:38:33 PM | #

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OK, maybe I wasn't clear: I'm not saying Widmore is LITERALLY Magnus Hanso, aka, the same physical self walking around, eating burritos, playing Guitar Hero, etc.

But reread the article above, think about the re-occurence of certain spirits, and the re-evaluate how Person A can also be Person B. Not liking a particular idea doesn't automatically dismiss it from the realm of possibility.

I'll talk about this more tonight.

Ryan | Jun 11, 2008 12:56:08 PM | #

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It certainly doesn't, but it doesn't mean I have to like it ;)

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 1:10:53 PM | #

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Just to be straight: I do like your idea of spirits living on and "repurposing" bodies, I just don't like the idea that Widmore is one of those people.

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 1:12:46 PM | #

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That's the glory of theories... they're made to either be proven or disproven.

Widmore is definitely interested in the Journal from the Black Rock, because it contains notes on(perhaps even coordinates for) the Island. Therefore one can surmise that he knows that the Black Rock is on the Island. Probably because he saw it there or, in terms of my theory, he was onboard.

It was suggested elsewhere that Widmore found out about the Island from the Journal, but it's obvious Widmore's search for the Island goes back alot further than eight years. (when the auction took place)

As for Abaddon, I cannot believe that he is simply a lackey for Charles Widmore. There's more to him than that. Whether or not he'll end up being a survivor of the Black Rock, dunno. But, it would be pretty cool, in my opinion.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 1:13:34 PM | #

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how about this for a theory:

Abbadon is to Widmore as Ben was to the De Groots/Dharma.

both could be lackies who took down an organization from the inside.

mri | Jun 11, 2008 1:21:53 PM | #

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mri-

I'm with you on that one. Seeing Abaddon and what he has done so far, me thinks he isn't faithful to Widmore. Either a rogue agent with his own agenda, or is also connected to another organization (Hanso/Paik/Mittelos).

What...No one like my Garden of Eden Theory? Is it too over-the-top or has it been totally dismissed?

Shaggysteve | Jun 11, 2008 1:30:16 PM | #

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Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...if the A-Team had found the Black Rock, they wouldn't have just carted off a stick or 3 of dynamite. They'd have built an armored boat-tank and kicked some serious Other ass. Jus' sayin'.

(Oh wait, that's exactly what Hurley did, isn't it? Maybe he's the reincarnated spirit of George Peppard...)

DanC | Jun 11, 2008 1:33:02 PM | #

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S.Steve-

so you're saying that the Island is Eden. would that make Adam and Eve in the caves are ACTUALLY Adam and Eve from the Bible?

mri | Jun 11, 2008 1:37:54 PM | #

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Garden of Eden? Hmmm. Well, we do have Adam and Eve in the cave. Figuratively at least. Do kinda like the thought of their being a Tree of Life and/or a Tree of Knowledge somewhere on the Island perhaps in the center of the Temple. Could explain Richard's ageless appearance. And Be's bug-eyes.... so much knowledge that his eyes are forced outta his head by his all-knowing brain.

Dunno. It's a different take on things for sure.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 1:45:44 PM | #

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their being a Tree? Be's bug eyes? yeesh.
Proof read, proof read, proof read... then post.

OK, end of self-scolding.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 1:49:26 PM | #

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I'm leaning toward Aaron and Ji Yeon being "Adam & Eve". Just trying that one on for size at the moment..

Jeff | Jun 11, 2008 1:54:12 PM | #

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i like Penny and Des for Adam and Eve...or the DeGroots...or Niki and Paolo. kidding...

mri | Jun 11, 2008 2:03:04 PM | #

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What if Adam and Eve are just unlucky Dharma folks who wandered too far from the Barracks and were killed by the Hostiles or the polar bear? Remember the human skeletons in the polar bear cave? Who were they? Why were there children's toys in the polar bear cave? Some things we may never know.
I do hope that we find out who the couple in the cave were. I wouldn't rule out the DeGroots, Charlotte's parents, Annie's parents or even Annie and her lover (if Ben got jealous), or even people from Rousseau's team who ran and hid from her only to become trapped in the caves. What are those darn black and white stones all about, though?

Chris | Jun 11, 2008 3:55:12 PM | #

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There's no way that is Adam & Eve from the bible. However, I do think it will show a new beginning for mankind. Possibly all the fighting over the Island, and the end game, will result in society starting over again. This will solve the Velenzetti Equation, as there will be no more self-destruction of the world (or there will be based on how you look at it).

TPTB have said Adam & Eve on the show will prove they had a plan for the show all along. There is a lot of theories for sure on who it may be. I'm going with Desmond & Penny.

Shaggysteve | Jun 11, 2008 4:49:09 PM | #

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Right now I still lean towards Rose and Bernard as Adam & Eve.

oneblood | Jun 11, 2008 5:12:01 PM | #

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I am most intrigued into what Locke/Jeremy Bentham told all of the O-6 after he came back from the island. It seems, before they left no one hated Locke so not to be at his funeral. So once he came back he said something that made them angry and was killed/died and no one went to his funeral except Jack and Ben ... Could it be that Ben had Locke/Jeremy Bentham killed for the simply purpose of bringin the o-6 back to the island???

Lost-Spy | Jun 11, 2008 6:39:57 PM | #

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I thought I'd said something about the Adam & Eve thing on one of our blogs. But then I may have been composing it in my brain as I was reading other people's comments and forgot to actually type it. I know I was thinking something about it when we were discussing Tunesia and the polar bear thing--Africa being the cradle of civilization.

Maybe Widmore is simply looking for a 'treasure'--the secret of Black Rock. Most things come down to love & money.

Barb | Jun 11, 2008 6:55:26 PM | #

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I forgot to mention that I don't think Penny & Desmond are going to end up being our Adam & Eve. I think it has to go to the younger generation.

Barb | Jun 11, 2008 6:57:16 PM | #

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So, using a trade-in-baseball analogy, Barb, you're thinking of Aaron and "a player to be named later?" :P

Dark Disciple | Jun 11, 2008 7:02:23 PM | #

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Barb-

My apologies if it was you that brought the Garden of Eden reference to light. I occasionally visit other sites and some times can not differenciate some of the things I read. Either way, I liked the theory and thought I would revisit it. It just seems there has got to be a connection between Africa being the cradle of civilization and Ben/Polar Bears ending up in Africa from the Island.

Shaggysteve | Jun 11, 2008 7:15:17 PM | #

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Sh. St., Don't worry--I wasn't worried about anyone 'getting credit' for ideas. I just want all the theories out there so we can discuss them. I, too, go to other sites (although this is by far the best!) and check out what people are saying. I definitely agree there has to be some connection between Africa (the Black Rock) and the island. Those polar bears didn't end up in the same spot as Ben for no reason.

DD, Yes, I'm thinking Aaron and 'a player to be named later', possibly Sun & Jin's baby or maybe someone who hasn't come to light yet. Maybe Juliette is going to get something going? It's hard to believe Kate never got pregnant.

Barb | Jun 11, 2008 7:25:15 PM | #

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Is anyone else wondering what happened to Cindy? I mean specifically: why she disappeared from the cliff when she did, and what her role has become within The Others' society? What did Cindy mean by her subtext (which Jack failed to grasp) outside of Jack's cage when she said, "It's not that simple" and "We're here to watch"? Was Cindy working with The Others the entire time? Did The Others abduct Cindy because they knew that she was the informal caretaker of Zach and Emma, and they used the children (threatening to kill them) as a way of manipulating Cindy into cooperating? Is Cindy fully brainwashed, or is she pretending to be assimilated in order to buy herself some time and possibly subvert The Others?

Give us a Cindy-centric flashback episode!

Get_A_Klugh | Jun 12, 2008 4:58:51 AM | #

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regarding the fact that Desmond saw Claire and Aaron getting into the helicopter, surely that vison was ruined when desmond got Charlie to 'duck' when he stepped on one of Danielle's traps, with the spear/arrow in the throat. after that they then have the issues with Naomi bailing out of the crashed helicopter (allthough it clearly didnt crash) so the orignial vision was replaced by the ending to season 3

Robbie | Jul 9, 2008 9:41:43 AM | #

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also on the subject of Cindy, i belive she was brainwashed by the same machine they tried to use on Carl (the one sawyer and kate saved him from with the help of alex) and if it worked on her, it probably worked on the rest. However the writers could play it as a twist, that they are a third 'society' on the island, and they may have escaped/left the others, and they may be a big part of season 5/6 with additional story lines and plot twists

| Jul 9, 2008 9:45:00 AM | #

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