As promised, here's Part 2 of this week's installment of "Letters from the Flame." In yesterday's edition, I addressed a variety of topics, but today's entry focuses on the birthing and raising of children in the Lost world, a topic at the front and center of the majority of Lost action these days. Moreover, it speaks to the increasing suggestion on the show that the drama we're watching not only started before the Lostaways even thought about boarding Oceanic 815, but likely started centuries earlier.

But all that in good time. Let's see what reader "Chris" wants to know.

Ryan, for "Letters from the Flame," please, pretty please with sugar on top and a sweet bing cherry with whipped cream...........answer me this:

How does Benjamin Linus go from this Island-raised boy to "Others" leader to über spy/assassin/time travellin' man? Was he trained at Richard Alpert's school for the insanely special chosen kids? How does this little man know so much about manipulation and psychology and technology? He didn't just pop out of Emily this way so, how did he learn all this stuff?

Firstly, ye needs never ask that nicely. In fact, it's vaguely off-putting. Living in Boston, I'm much more used to angry scowls and scatologically-based insults hurled me way. All this "niceness" has to end, people. No one really acts that way. Next thing you'll be telling me is that people actually smile in public. I'm not buying that for a second. But enough about Boston and onto your question.

There's a long and short way to answer your question. The short way speaks to pure plot mechanics, whereby his encounter with Richard Alpert as a child sets in motion a series of events that lead to the Purge and everything thereafter. But obviously, that's not what you're asking. I imagine you're less interested in the "how" than the "why."

As far as the formation of the Ben Linus we all know and love/hate/want to remain at least fifty feet away from at all times, I'd suggest you look at the way Michael Emerson plays the moment in "The Man Behind the Curtain" when he takes the gas mask off upon the Purge's successful completion. Watch how his body sloooooows down after a few, initial, wide-eyed, chest-heaving gasps into a man who wills himself into a position of cold-hearted, calculating authority. Everything else that followed demonstrated a mixture of innate skill, astute perception, and a moral code outside that of "normal" people.

It didn't help that he assumed control of a place replete with advanced/unusual forums for exploration/experimentation in the fields of science, psychology, and parapsychology. I've long felt that what we saw in Room 23 was "The Linus Cut," a Special Edition version, if you will, of the original video. The music might have been his idea as well, transforming a place once meant perhaps for benevolent means into a chamber in which loyalists could be programmed.

But remember, this is also a man who, as a boy, sent his beloved pet rabbit through the sonic fence to ensure that he himself did not die after entering in the code. What we see in adult Ben was always present, on some level, in his psyche. But his encounter with Alpert as a child merely augmented and honed a side that might have been more dormant under different circumstances. This is what he means when he tells people over and over again how he was born on the Island. He's both lying and telling the truth at once. While he was biologically produced just outside of Portland, Oregon, he was truly Born on the Island.

Speaking of unusual births, let's hear from reader "A-Rob" about the pattern that emerges in the aftermath.

Why can't the "chosen ones" be raised by their true parents? Starting with Ben, his mother died as soon as he was born and he never had a good relationship with his father. Then, Locke is raised by adoptive parents. Throw in Walt being separated from Michael both pre- and post crash, and Aaron without Claire, and a pattern starts to form. What's up with that?

Zap2It reader Jeff has it right when he says that the figure of the "orphan" is a staple not only of literature as a whole, but specifically the hero myth in particular. Moses, Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter...all orphans, "raised by another," to quote the aptly named Claire-centric episode from Season 1. As such, the hero's journey is marked by the absence of birth parents, and during the quest to discover the identity of their parents, discover their own true nature and, by extension, their destiny.

That's obviously a simplistic way to sum up "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," but Joseph Campbell literally wrote the book on this stuff decades ago. The suggestion is that myths from various cultures all adhere to a similar pattern, one that could not have simply derived from the cross-pollination of different cultures, but rather independently developed from one another. This makes the similarities between these archetypal myths that much more fascination. Rather than springing from a cultural meme, it arose seemingly from one central source tapped into by all walks of life.

Having typed out that insanely pretentious paragraph, let's take this "monomyth," as Campbell calls it, and literally spell it out. (Well, type it out, really, if you're being literal.)

A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.

What's interesting is how Lost seemingly embraced this model, and then COMPLETELY went against the grain. In this monomyth, there are many variations, but quite often three distinct stages: departure, initiation, and return. The first details the venturing forth on the quest, which in Lost might be truly demarcated by the now infamous "Live together, die alone" speech from "White Rabbit." Initiation is everything from that moment until Jack makes contact with Minkowski at the end of Season 3, which SHOULD start the phase of return. Only, in the case of Lost, the act of return is in fact the undoing of everything.

The Oceanic 6 are in some ways a direct mockery of the monomyth, with the return phase marked by regret, death, overwhelming guilt, and a realization that what was perceived to be the return was in fact still part of the initiation. Jack's assertion that they "have to go back" is his realization regarding his part in the overall mythology, the errors he's committed along the way, and his frustration at not being able to reinsert himself back into the storyline. Then again, Jack's...well, he's Jack. Which maybe means that he's once again completely freakin' wrong about what to do. Maybe it's not himself that needs to go back; it's Aaron, the now-orphan. (See how I tied all that back? I know, smooth operator. Just call me Sade.)

Let's now go a bit further into the deep end of the pool (or off the deep end, depending on your perspective) and combine the hero-myth with a figure the show alluded to in "Cabin Fever": the tuklu, a Buddhist lama who is reborn generation after generation in order to fulfill what's known as the Bodhisattva vow. I've been reading up on tuklus and Bodhisattva vows since "Cabin Fever" aired, and trust me, I'm far from an expert. In fact, I will more than likely misapply what I've learned. But I've hopefully gleaned enough to see where Lost might be going with Alpert's "Drawing of the Three" scene, couple it with "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," and lead you all into nirvana. Or at the very least, the next paragraph.

The heroic journey and Bodhisattva vows are similar in that they both seek enlightenment for the purpose of aiding/educating others. Here's a translation of The Four Great Vows:

I vow to liberate all beings, without number
I vow to uproot endless blind passions
I vow to penetrate dharma gates beyond measure
I vow to attain the way of the Buddha

If that doesn't sound like the modus operandi for The Dharma Initiative, I don't know what does. An organization conceived in order to bring enlightenment to the world through scientific research in a unique location able to provide a proper for results "beyond measure"...sounds about right, no?

The trick, however, is balancing the good of all against the desires of self, and this struggle has played out over decades, centuries, perhaps millennia on and around the Island. The sides we currently see fighting over control over the island both miss the point entirely, giving in to those "endless blind passions" that have corrupted all who have come before. And why? Because in the show itself are various tuklus, entities that have reappeared throughout history, betrothed and/or betrayed by the Island.

Richard's search for the Island savior is the most direct sign the show's given that such entities are in play. There have been hints of the Island's history, through hieroglyphics, statues, and slave ships. But what we haven't really keyed into until now is the notion that this struggle we've watched for the past four seasons is but one small sliver amidst a lengthy feud between two sides fueled not only by the same passions, but in many ways, by the same people.

Lately, I've been obsessed with applying the board game Risk to the world of Lost, but it's time I went back to the basics and looked at backgammon as another way in which to illustrate the tuklu orphan phenomenon at work here.

LOCKE: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Archeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of ancient Mesopotamia. Five thousand years old. That's older than Jesus Christ.

WALT: Did they have dice and stuff?

LOCKE [nods]: Mhhm. But theirs weren't made of plastic. Their dice were made of bones

WALT: Cool.

LOCKE: Two players. Two sides. One is light... one is dark.

Whether or not this was intended at the time, this snippet of dialogue might accurately describe both the nature and length of conflict on the Island, with two players/tuklus in a five thousand year struggle, constantly perpetuating the battle via their own moral code/ Bodhisattva vow. But here's the kicker: both sides think they are the light and the other is the dark. Both fashion themselves the hero in this particular care. They are, to paraphrase Benjamin Linus, the good guy. Ever trying to destroy the other. Ever failing. But ever trying.

So there you have it: The Tuklu Orphan Theory of Lost. Possibly the least catchy titled theory ever, but hopefully worth your consideration all the same.

Your turn, campers...what do you make of the war over the Island? Long-fought battle, or recent skirmish?  What can we glean from the births of Ben, Locke, and Aaron in terms of the show's mythology? And who, ultimately, is the hero of this show?

Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.

Comments

I was gonna post first but decided to wait. Just as the focus has shifted to the "orphans" and away from the whiney Jack, so has my interest in the show doubled. Coincidence?

Probably not.

Brian of the North | May 14, 2008 6:06:42 PM | #

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BOTN - right there with you. Jack is just a pain in the ass character right now. Fortunately, he's getting of the island in a couple of weeks, in what appears to be a huge plane (at least on the promo).

Ryan - Wow. That was one of the most overly analitical and farfettched theories I've ever heard. But it is very well written. I'm off theorizing myself for a while, since I'm gonna need to save my intelect for other things, but it's good to see that you just never run out of explanations, wich are mostly more accurate than you claim.

sin laden | May 14, 2008 7:22:22 PM | #

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Maybe there isn't a lighter or darker side. Maybe we shouldn't see things in terms of an ongoing manichaean war. Maybe both sides of the war are 'wrong' and the island in its search of balance will just let both sides battle and kill each other. But like any good strategist, the island as an entity probably have people (its own 007)in each side of the conflict. Those agents are probably undermining both Team Linus and Team Widmore's efforts and are also trying to precipitate the bloodshed or overt war that is sure to come. When Ben said the 'rules' have ben changed, he wasn't (only) talking about Widmore changing said rules. The island itself has changed the rules of the game and the outcome of this ongoing war is more then ever uncertain. I think the island is fed up with the never-ending thug of war for its control and is taking action to eliminate both sides of the conflict. Maybe Ben's and Widmore immunity will get revoked (I'd like to see them battle each other out!)

Melissa | May 14, 2008 9:16:56 PM | #

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As the overall mythology of the Island begins to unfold it is clear that this fight is a long fought one that very well may soon be finally coming to an end.

As far as the ultimate hero of the show, at first it was Jack then shifted to Locke. Now I tend to believe Sawyer has ended up being a hero for our Lostaways. However, there are several characters we can argue who have been heroes on the Island in one way or another.

Shaggysteve | May 14, 2008 9:24:13 PM | #

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As a writer and fan of all kinds of TV and movies, I find all the Joseph Campbell stuff fascinating, especially the monomyth.

You might not think it, but video game stories are actually quite tuned-in to all of that stuff. The entire Legend of Zelda series has been created, sequel-ed and re-written many times, but it always comes back to the 3 main characters (Link, Princess Zelda and Ganon) connected to each other throughout time. Starting with the N64 console, the versions of the characters in subsequent games were just reincarnations of the 3 characters and their endless conflict, spanning centuries.

Another game called Kingdom Hearts, which is a Final Fantasy/Disney hybrid, is all about a hero that has this unique power that lets him save the universe. But as the series went on, we found out the power and the conflict started a long time in the past, and it was just passed along to each new generation, always repeating itself. The next installment in the series is going to be a prequel, showing how it all began.

Anyway, none of the above really has anything to do with Lost. However, I see and understand the connections to the Joseph Campbell stuff.

In a way, if we took Ryan's discussions about the Lost generations, the "Sins of the Fathers" theory that's been discussed here before, we see that the great struggle on and for the Island has been carried on by the Christian Shephards and the Charles Widmores, and now they leave it to their children (Jack, Locke, Penny & Desmond, etc) to finally break the cycle.

Other Sean | May 15, 2008 12:16:59 AM | #

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Ryan, something just occurred to me and it plays right into the Sins of the Fathers theory that you've put forward. Whiney-Jack's substance abuse problem and Christians substance abuse problem may have been caused by the same thing...

...the desire to return to the island!

(BTW I also don't think that Cabin-Christian is speaking for Jacob.)

Brian of the North | May 15, 2008 5:58:07 AM | #

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Ryan, good use of the monomyth! You phrase everything so much more eloquently than I can, but you totally got the gist of what I was saying and then ran from there. I really love looking at the show from a literary standpoint, because it gets so much richer and larger when you understand the underlying classic themes and mythologies in play.

Jeff | May 15, 2008 6:37:13 AM | #

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Another hero/orphan of the monomyth: Dorothy Gale from The Wizard of Oz. Eeeenteresting considering yesterday's discussion.

Diana | May 15, 2008 6:42:57 AM | #

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"Bodhisattva, oh won't you take me by the hand.......
Can I be there, shine of your Japan, sparkle of your China, can I be there............" - Steely Dan.....love that song. Thanks for the reminder.

Ryan, I had to be nice because I tried pissing and moaning and you still didn't answer my question. I knew my utterly repulsive niceness would get your attention. Thank you for responding.

BTW, BOTN.....I don't think Christian is speaking for Jacob either. It's a bit unsettling to see him in the cabin with Claire and not the "real" Jacob. If Jacob does exist, I think he's trapped somewhere in time and is in trouble. Maybe he's also trying to get BAAAAAACK to save the island. Maybe Dear Richard Alpert will come out of hiding to help Locke and (even Ben)to complete their task of "moving" the island.

I believe there is going to be a showdown at the orchid and that the island gets moved-in-time somehow as the 06ers are ferrying to the freighter and that's why they cannot all get off. They become lost in time.

Chris | May 15, 2008 7:02:49 AM | #

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i'm in the Christian isn't speaking for Jacob boat as well. but this puts me at a quandry. so Claire's there but not, and Christian's there but not: was Charlie also there but not? i don't know why i want to lump all the ghost-type folks together her, but maybe they're all controlled by the same entity. and if so, is it a good one or a bad one? is the directive the O6 seems to get from these ghost-types from a good guy or a bad guy? therein lies my quandry...

mri | May 15, 2008 10:48:48 AM | #

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meant to say "the directive the O6 seems to get to return to the Island..."

mri | May 15, 2008 10:49:53 AM | #

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I have to believe all the "Come Back to the Island" pleas come from the "good guy" in the ultimate storyline. I think the parallels to "Empire Strikes Back" are striking, with the Oceanic 6 having escaped but still haunted, with their side largely decimated or scattered.

Season 5 should provide background on the Island's history, as the 6 look for ways back, with ample background on Hanso, Widmore, and the DI tossed in there, since I can't imagine the Six getting back until the final season of the show.

Ryan | May 15, 2008 11:01:58 AM | #

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so, suited Christian = good and casual Christian = bad? are there 2 entities sending dead folks as emmisaries?

mri | May 15, 2008 11:41:37 AM | #

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I really hope Season 5 delves more into the Island history. I've grown to like the characters, but the mythology is what keeps me hooked to LOST.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 1:49:44 PM | #

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I think it will. The producers have already mentioned on a couple of occasions how the DI are going to play a significant role next season.

Jeff | May 15, 2008 1:56:37 PM | #

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If the not-Christian in the cabin wasn't speaking for Jacob, who does Locke's order to "Move the Island" serve?

William Robinson | May 15, 2008 2:17:48 PM | #

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I'm hoping they somehow show an Island flashback. Perhaps it can be Richard's flashback, or maybe even Jacob. All the mythology around the Island just really fascinates me.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 2:18:06 PM | #

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William Robinson-

It could be Ben, who very well could be still manipulating John. Also, we just don't know exactly yet who notChristian is working for. Perhaps in time we will see his connection to the Island pre-crash.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 2:24:18 PM | #

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Are we sure notChristian is really notChristian, and not acutally Christian? I know he's been popping up lately, but I don't remember any "ghosts" really being on Lost. When Jack saw Christian in the future, he was the only one who saw him. The Christian in the cabin was seen by Locke, Claire, and even Miles (though the whole Miles=psychic thing might not count). Every time some sort of being or dead person appears, it's either in a dream (like with Boone or Horace) or only one other person can see it (Locke/Shannon seing Walt). I'm not counting out notChristian really being notChristian, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually alive.

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 2:25:36 PM | #

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A-Rob

I would agree, but Darlton have said on numerous occasions that Christian is DEAD. However, they have been known to lie to us before for the sake of storytelling. The Island difinitely does strange things to people. My feeling is because Christian's body was on the Island without a soul, that a LOST soul has taken over his body in order to carry out the will of the Island.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 2:36:23 PM | #

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What if by "move the island"..they literally move it to a different axis of the Earth. Right now they are near Fiji, where it is warm. How about moving the island to the polar region/antarctic? Perhaps Ben in the near future takes a trip to desert through the Orchid, except this time he appears in a parka apparently freezing his butt off. Perhaps the Island had been successfully moved to the friged climate and this may explain how the Polar Bears got to the Island.

Marino | May 15, 2008 2:44:30 PM | #

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Marino-

I like it. Since the Orchid deals with space/time displacement, that is highly likely. There was a theory a few months ago that involved the Island being a door to a vortex, and several other vortices existed around the world including the Bermuda Triangle. I believe it was 'Vile Vortices' or something along those lines. I always thought it was an interesting theory.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 2:51:57 PM | #

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Is everyone going to participate in the chat-like session after the episode like we did last week? It's guaranteed that we'll have a lot a lot to talk about.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 3:07:51 PM | #

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A-Rob, I think it might be that notChristian may actually be Christian and is both alive and dead. Perhaps he is somehow able to travel to various times in the future (or various presents) from a time in the past prior to his death (consider Desmond's arranging his telephone conversation with Penny).

This theory would also potentially explain how Richard Alpert does not age - the entire story may be originating from a relatively short period of time in the past with voyages setting out in many directions like light beams at the speed of light with light's idiosyncracies!?

Cosmostrecker | May 15, 2008 3:37:45 PM | #

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Hey Shaggy -- if I'm too spun up to sleep I may come downstairs to "chat" with you/others. Oh, for a laptop again (my old one died, RIP). I'd love to "bedweb" after 11, ensconced among fluffy pillows, my face glowing from the light of the display as I rapidly tap out my thoughts post-show...!

But if not 2nite, I'll see everyone over at Ryan's recap tomorrow AM!

djc | May 15, 2008 5:33:35 PM | #

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mri-
I commented this somewhere else on this blog, but I think that suit Christian is Jack's memory of his dad, and rumpled Christian is Claire's memory of her dad. How we see Christian is how the memories of the pertinent people are being projected.

Ryan-
Slightly off topic, but you should check out the Boston-based artist Bren Bataclan, whose personal mission is to make Bostonians smile at strangers more often.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 5:49:26 PM | #

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Shaggysteve: "concerned" -- Wow dude. You really do pay attention. Glad to have you around. Hope you'll stick with us.

Thanks much! I'm not going anywhere -- I just wish I had discovered this blog sooner!

Shaggysteve:Where is everyone else? There is a lot to talk about. 'Cabin Fever' gave us more questions to ponder. I liked how we used this as a forum (actually over at the LOST BLOG) after the episode. We were able to work out what we all observed from the episode. Though it may not be fair to those on the West Coast, I think we should do it again following the next episode. Then following the finale we'll need therapy sessions to get through our LOST withdrawl for 8 months.

I apologize for my tardy response, and promise to be more timely in the future. (Tonight's episode should provide much material for discussion, as should the two-hour finale!)

Shaggysteve: Is everyone going to participate in the chat-like session after the episode like we did last week? It's guaranteed that we'll have a lot a lot to talk about.

Which "channel"? First here, then over at "it happened last night" if/when Ryan posts the recap tonight? (How about whoever first notices that
the recap has been posted please post a message here letting everyone know to "switch channels". Thanks.)

Great discussion this week, people, on a wide variety of topics -- from "is Claire really dead?" to monomyths! (I also am a big Joseph Campbell fan -- in fact I think I mentioned him a couple of weeks ago in reference to Star Wars.)

Before tonight's episode airs, however, let me get down my reaction to last week's "episode" as my take seems to be somewhat different than others. To be honest, I was bit insecure after reading Ryan's excellent recap as I had never heard of "The Drawing of the Three", nor did he bring up some of the biggest questions
regarding the episode I had. (Fortunately others eventually touched on some of them, at least tangentially.) At any rate, without further ado, here's my reaction:

I didn't think there was anything wroing with the freighter stuff, it interested me just as much as the rest of the "episode". The problem was that it wasn't so much as episode as simply 42 minutes of the long-form filmed-novel that is LOST. And sometimes 42 minutes just isn't enough time to have a satifying story arc -- especially when split amongst several groups of people (and when leading into a season-finale). I found every minute of all three story-lines interesting; I just thought it was too short in that it's frustrating to have to wait a week for the next 42 minutes. I suspect if one was watching the season on DVD at one's own pace there would be no negative reaction to the freighter stuff in this "episode" at all.

I keep putting "episode" in quotes because LOST episodes aren't always episodes in the traditional sense of being self-contained stories that (generally speaking) can be shown out of sequence as they simply have the same main characters and settings -- think the original STAR TREK. Clearly LOST is long-form, not episodic, though in most cases they do do a tremendous job of making it an episode as well. But this time they couldn't... but rather than accept that, we have to find blame, and thus point to the freighter stuff, because it had the least sense of begiinning/end.

(But even this story had some structure: It began with the arrival of the chopper on the freighter, and essentially ended with the departure of the chopper.)

Obiously the locke flashback stuff had a clear beginning (his birth) and end (the disabled locke we've already come to know), but this is relatively easy to do in flashback.

And the other story, regarding the search for the cabin, didn't have a beginning (we knew before the episode that the three would be searching for the cabin, and that Ben didn't know the way), but there was a clearly defined middle (the wonderfully named "pit stop" to find Horace's map) and dramatic ending ("move the island").

But as far as the "middle" goes, the whole vision and finding the map was a bit contrived in that nothing was learned from it, nor was it necessary -- it was just a (albeitly clever) delaying tactic, so they wouldn't find the cabin right away (or just spend the whole episode looking around for it until Hurley or John magically found it).

Think about how even some of the pre-commercial dramatic moments were forced, such as when Locke tells Hurley, in answer to his question regarding what happened to cause the death of all those people in the pit, "he did" (indicating Ben). Based on the dramatic sound and cut to commercial, you'd think this was new info -- but of course we've known it for a long time.

So, given how little time remains in the season, as much as I like Horace (where do I know that actor from?!) (pre-LOST), I would have preferred that the whole cabin-vision and pit-stop have been deleted, and that time given to the "freighter" story. Then at the end of the episode they find (either thanks to a logical search patten or Hurley's or Locke's special gifts) the cabin and the ending is as written.

But then some people (though not me) would have been complaining that something seemed missing because they just set out to find it and ultimately did (there was no "middle"). But to me since the "middle" was strictly for entertainment, it apparently didn't add much to the story (except Locke can get visions again), it kind of was a little waste of time.

But since it was entertaining it didn't bother me -- I'm just bringing it up because I think some are unfairly complaining about the freighter stuff, which I think was actually better than most of the "find the cabin" story. Though clearly the flashback story was the most interesting and important, and what caught most of my attention. To wit: I've been amazed that almost nobody has mentioned the things that really troubled me, to the point that I've almost been afraid to mention them:

1) How many kids, especially back then, have the same last name as their maternal grandmother? The nurse refers to Mrs. Locke, who inquires about adoption. If John was adopted as a baby he almost certainly would have had a different last name, as would he if his mother did keep him and eventually got married to someone else. When John did "The Drawing of the Three" he seemed to have a different mother (not Emily) and a sister and baby brother. It's unlikely his mother would have had two more kids if she wasn't married (plus she didn't look like Emily). Nor is it likely if he was adopted that his adoptive mother would not give him her (and her husband's) last name. Or am I missing something obvious?

2) Why was it so important to Emily (John's mother) that the hospital staff know that the baby is to be named John? In fact, she says his name IS John, as if it is a fact. Is this a clue? Or just another name (such as Sawyer) that that Cooper (the person who needed the kidney from him as an adult) went by, and Emily just wanted to name the baby after him because she was in love?

3) Since when is John a nerd? To the point of getting beat up in high school? Doesn't seem right -- seems more like Darlton (or ABC) are wanting to pander to a core demographic of the show, rather than being organic to John's character. Not good.

I find myself playing the first 30 seconds of the episode over and over -- "Everyday" is one of my favorite songs by one of my favorite singer/songwriter/musicians (we have the same birthday, though he died before I was born), and I've always thought that time (late 50's/early 60's) was probably the best time in human history (at least for Americans). Pre-vietnam/national debt, etc., an innocent time between wars when good-paying jobs were plentiful -- even for the modestly educated -- and one's biggest concern was fully immersing oneself in teenage love.

Then reality hits, with Holly dying in a plane crash (the day the music died), the Kennedy assasination, vietnam, the draft, massive federal debt, etc.

Perhaps everyone thinks the time just before they were born was the best time to be alive, but I think an objective case can be made that this was indeed the time of Camelot. (He says, as he rewinds the tape again to hear the music, see her singing and dancing and primping in her classic 50's outfit.)

mri: "concerned" -- hmmmm time travel and planetary movement. hadn't thought about it. but then, it makes me think about the first time i ever flew in a plane when i was about 5 and my dad (he's QUITE the jokester) told me to be careful because if i jumped up in the air on my way to the bathroom, the back of the plane would smack me in the face.

That's hilarious!

BrianOTN: "concerned" -- again you've been paying attention. The show "Seven Days", addressed the time travel & physical relocation issue through a powerful computer program and an old school joystick mounted in the sphere that our hero would climb into before he "blasted off". I think the fact that I was the only one watching is why the show's not around any more. Later dude!

Interesting. I'm amazed I'd never heard of this show.

(I think I had some more thoughts [!] but I see it's less than an hour to the new episode so I'd better go ahead and post this!)

"concerned" | May 15, 2008 6:18:20 PM | #

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20 minutes to go ... see everybody here after 11 ;)

Erwin | May 15, 2008 6:41:29 PM | #

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concerned-
wow. thats really all there is to say.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 6:42:30 PM | #

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A few more last-minute thoughts:

Tim: Anyone think maybe Frank is Jacob?

God, that would be great! As I think I've previously mentioned I feel a certain buddha-like calmness whenever Frank is around.

Jens: Anyone catch the fact that the bearings used to get to the island are the same as those getting off? A bearing of 305 degrees to get to the ship would mean having to use a bearing of 125 degrees to get back to the island.

Yes, I noticed that too. I assume the dialog was simplified due to lack of time, but who knows?

Patricia: Love Jack. It wouldn't be Lost without Jack. Locke and Jack are the main characters, as Damon and Carlton has stated in recent interviews.

I'm almost afraid to admit it, but I agree.

In my haste, and to keep my previous post brief (yeah, right), I neglected to give credit where credit is due:

Ray: I'm a little confused. Who was Locke raised by? His mother ran off and Grandmother said somthing about adoption. Was that his foser mom who he was with with the other kids?

jbw:Also, who before tonight would have pegged John Locke as a science geek in school?

Mark O. Estes: I think this episode was not as good as everyone thought it was. The Island bits bored me (except for the end) and the freighter plot was where the action was. I hope Ryan didn't blow that off, because it set up what is to come for the impending showdown. I am not a fan of John Locke as I have time and time again have stated, but his backstory was really interesting. I kinda sympathized with him and I stretch kinda. I still think he blindly doesn't pay attention and does things on impulse which could get people in trouble.

What I am worried about is that while LOST is great this season, it is not what it was first season. In that I mean as I look here at all the posts every week since I been on the board, it is amazing to see how many people have forgotten simple things that don't mesh with the current state of things on the show. Some cases in point are all the signs of the Hatch to not be opened in season one, Walt's vision telling Shannon to not push the button, Claire being told to not let her child be raised by another, the whole Walt is special thing, etc. etc. I have a very bad feeling (even though the show is brilliant and somewhat original) that when you se the show in full, like watching from Season One to Season Six, that people will become aware of the spotchy storytelling that is happening now. And on a last note, the episode was a good one because it built on character (Locke), plot (the frieghter/Island), and overall arc (all three combined). If you don't have one of those then you don't have a good story if you get what I am saying...

DanC I guess I'll have to try to watch the episode again online, because it didn't really do as much for me as I'd hoped, or as it appears to have for others.

Granted, it was great seeing Richard again, ageless as ever and kinda neat learning that it's Horace who gets to join Quintus in the Crooked House Design Competition, but ... I don't know, maybe it was just the bad TV reception or the late hour, but I just felt like it was another 'all set-up, no punchline (yet)' episode. Definitely need to watch it again.

(And for those who don't get the Quintus reference...while I think most of Robert Heinlein's adult SF novels were total crap - with the notable exception of The Door Into Summer - I did like a number of his short stories. Including "--And He Built a Crooked House", about an architect who built a house based on a four-dimensional geometric figure called a tesseract. A house that exhibited VERY odd properties indeed...)

I loved "Summer" and "House" as well -- that woujld be cool if the cabin does turn out to be a tesseract!

P.S. Abaddon and Alpert showing up in Locke's past?. Way cool.

Agreed!

"concerned" | May 15, 2008 6:58:12 PM | #

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Whoa.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:00:40 PM | #

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did Sun's Dad look thoroughly unsurprised/happy at his daughter's safe return?

also i think Jack's mom bears an uncanny resemblance to Harper.

best line of the night "Jesus Christ is not a weapon."

fantastic!!!

mri | May 15, 2008 8:02:16 PM | #

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Do we really have to wait 2 weeks for the finale??

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:05:27 PM | #

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I wouldn't say it was the best episode I've ever seen, but it definitely left me wanting more. A lot of WTF? moments for sure.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:05:30 PM | #

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mri-

There was something peculiar about Mr. Paik. However, we do know he has connections to Dharma and the Island.

A-Rob

Unfortunately Yes. But it looks to be one kick ass season finale.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:08:13 PM | #

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S.Steve-

Mr. Paik is definitely involved in the Island/Dharma. it was a nice touch that he didn't seem surprised.

wonder if Sun is going to use Paik Industries to get back to the Island?

mri | May 15, 2008 8:11:10 PM | #

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Could Paik's money troubles have anything to do with Miles's request? Hmmmmm

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:12:57 PM | #

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A-Rob-

i think Paik's employees were talking about the hostile takeover that just happened. Sun must have routed all her money through 5 different banks to cover her tracks.

mri | May 15, 2008 8:14:24 PM | #

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I've never posted before, just spent a lot of time reading everyone's theories (you all are scary smart, by the way, I wouldnt be able to think of any of these theories without a base from someone else).

After watching this episode, I feel like though it wasn't quite as exciting as the last one, it left me more confused than ever how the O6 end up together to get off the island? Jack's with Sawyer and from the preview, he'll clearly be meeting up with Hurley at the Orchid, but Kate and Sayid are with the Others, Sun's on the freighter with Aaron? How does that work out??

I'm also getting worried with all that C4 that Desmond, Michael and Jin are going to pull a Armageddon-style Bruce Willis on the freighter to save everyone else.

Did anyone else notice in the preview that it looked like Sawyer was on the helicopter when he kissed Kate?

I am dying to see this finale...its going to be a long two weeks.

(and thanks for all the great theories, you all have made my work days go by and given me a lot to think about!)

kristin | May 15, 2008 8:15:14 PM | #

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Ben undoubtedly has connections on the outside, but we don't know yet who they are. Paik is definitely a contender, as is Hanso I would think.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:17:01 PM | #

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mri-
We thought the 5 banks were representing moneys from the 5 adult Oceanic 6 members.

did anyone find it odd that ben didnt tell locke what to do once he took the elevator?

where are kate and sayid being taken?

what happens to the bearing if the freighter moves? how will farraday know where to return to?

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:17:41 PM | #

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A-Rob, mri is right ... Mr Paik was not expecting his own daughter to takeover the business ... that was just fun to see how Sun acted ... and then "you are one of them" responsible for Jin's death ... does this mean Jin is really dead??? and how?

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:18:08 PM | #

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And who's the other one responsible? I almost forgot about that!

Kristin | May 15, 2008 8:19:50 PM | #

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This episode confused me more than make this clear ... its gonna be excting to see how the O-6 are actually coming out about after what happened tonight.

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:20:18 PM | #

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erwin-
Or maybe more importantly, who would sun publicly say is the other person responsible for jin's death?

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:20:23 PM | #

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See, get me started posting and now I can't stop.

Did they ever establish that the tapping Sayid and Desmond were hearing on the pipes in the boat was definitely Michael? Or anyone else?

I'm thinking now, maybe Penny is on the freighter and no one knows it yet. Widmore did say Ben would never find her.

kristin | May 15, 2008 8:21:22 PM | #

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Morgan-

well, Sun just told her Dad that she owned controlling interest in Paik. and you can't just run out and do that (not sure on Korean laws about stock purchasing, so flying a little blind here) without filing a LOT of paper work beforehand. by floating the money out through 5 different banks, she could cover the fact that she bought Paik and reveal it to her father herself. also, there are counter moves a company can make (such as issuing more stock to devalue it) to fend off a takeover if you know about it faar enough in advance. Sun avoided all this and shocked the btwrth out of Daddy-dearest. a VERY nice backgammon move. :-)

mri | May 15, 2008 8:22:31 PM | #

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Morgan-

Good catch on the 5 banks thing. It would be a great way for them to gain access to Island info.

Kristin-

Listening to the Oceanic explanation of their rescue, it sounded like the Kahana is destroyed. It was probably the ship that washed on-shore with supplies mentioned in the story.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:24:00 PM | #

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Exactly Morgan ... there is someone else responsible for Jin's death that we don't know about ... this is "lost" we only get bits of pieces at a time ...

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:24:17 PM | #

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kristin-
no way would widmore hide his daughter on a freighter loaded with explosives.

and speaking of explosives... could the thing on keamy's arm be rigged so that if he dies the freighter explodes?

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:25:40 PM | #

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Just a couple things I noticed:

Notice how the story says the survivors left the island on day 108.
Loved when Claire's mom told Jack about Claire, then Jack looking at Aaron.
Also loved how Desmond just waved at Faraday after seeing him on the boat. Constant, meeting constant.

Also, I'm thinking more and more that Alpert is the one who comes up with the cover story.

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:25:44 PM | #

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Jack finally finds out that he has a sister and that sister is Claire, and now Aaron is with Kate ... now we can understand the "you are note even related"-line ... but will he tell Kate???

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:27:55 PM | #

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no way would widmore hide his daughter on a freighter loaded with explosives.

Maybe Widmore doesnt know the freighter is loaded with explosives. There's definitely more than one party at play on that boat. The Captain, Keamy and Michael all seem to be playing different sides.

kristin | May 15, 2008 8:28:46 PM | #

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The Jack-Claire reveal was heart-wrenching, so was the Sayid/Nadia reunion.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:30:37 PM | #

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A-Rob-
Nice call on the Constant thing. I totally forgot they hadnt actually met in island time yet. I noticed the 108 too.

And speaking of numbers... How freaky was the scene with Hurley in the car with the odometer?

And at Hurley's party... did you get the feeling that Sayid had told Nadia everything? The way she looked at Hurley's dad made me uneasy.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:31:14 PM | #

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S-Steve it was an emotional episode with lots of WTF?-moments again ...

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:31:55 PM | #

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With all the flash forwards and the happenings on the island, I think it's clear that a lot happens between the time the O6 get together and when they land in Hawaii. Sun even said they were all still in shock.

Yes Morgan, I got the same feeling that Nadia knows more than the cover story. Maybe that will lead to her being taken out later.

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:35:30 PM | #

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We're all seriously going to need some therapy to get us through the 8-month hiatus. At least we have this Blog to keep us from loosing our minds in the off-season.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:35:45 PM | #

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Oh also, we STILL need to find out who the other 2 of the 8 survivors are. We can count out Jin and Claire, so who else would they even need to mention? Maybe Locke, or Michael?

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:38:32 PM | #

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Their all more scattered now then they were when the episode began. There is undoubtedly going to be a lot happening in the finale to tie everything together. I can't wait.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:39:00 PM | #

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A-Rob

I'm thinking Michael & Desmond, as they are on the freighter.

Did anyone else notice there are now some red-shirts aboard the freighter that came from the Island?

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:41:30 PM | #

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I would think that the two would have had to have been on the flight manifest, which would exclude Desmond?

kristin | May 15, 2008 8:43:00 PM | #

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That whole Desmond not being on the plane thing might make his presence a little hard to explain.

Also, maybe all the survivors actually do get off the island. Why (or if) they don't get back to the real world is still a mystery.

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:44:35 PM | #

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Kristin-

That's true. I forgot about that.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:44:50 PM | #

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Wow! Lots of posts already. I'm watching a second time on VCR (sans commercials), back shortly. (I envy you Tivo people who only have to wait 18 minutes and can then watch the whole thing commercial free the first time.)

My first thoughts, however, are how appropriate what I said last week about how we're getting 42-minute chunks of a long-form filmed-novel, not self-contained episodes, these days. I think last week, this week, and the two "hour" finale are basically best thought of as one long episode.

And waiting weeks or more between 42-minute chunks of this long episode is a bit frustrating, though we all express it in different ways.

mri i think Paik's employees were talking about the hostile takeover that just happened. Sun must have routed all her money through 5 different banks to cover her tracks.

Agreed, though I guess as others have suggested all five were involved. Since we don't know the size of the settlement or how much it takes to own half (or slightly more) of the Paik company we can't really say at this point.

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts that I assumed that Keamy's arm rig was to blow up the freighter if he is killed (to captain holding gun on him: "you don't want to shoot me"), and I think tonight's episode pretty much confirmded it. Seems more practical and logical than saying it was intended to blow up the island -- they are trying to do that anyway, and they wouldn't have any way of rigging that, whereas they clearly have the ability (and had the time) to rig the ship to destruct if they are killed.

Okay, back to watching a second time... just wanted to check in...

"concerned" | May 15, 2008 8:45:24 PM | #

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| May 15, 2008 8:46:34 PM | #

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Based on the scenes from the next episodes, I am going to go out on a limb and predict death of sawyer by jumping from the chopper to preserve fuel. Too out there? Maybe.

I also want to go back and freeze frame Christian's memorial service to see if anyone else suspicious is in the crowd.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:46:43 PM | #

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I wonder why Daniel wants to get off the Island all of a sudden. I'd figure they would definitely stay there to finish experiments and such. I mean I guess it is still is possible as they haven't left yet. Also, how did he know about the secondary protocol when it was locked up in Gault's safe?

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:48:20 PM | #

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I cant remember who said it, but someone said awhile ago in one of Ryan's posts that Charlie was almost definitely one of the people who made it off the plane then died later because Penny saw him on the screen when he was at the Looking Glass. My vote for the other is Sawyer, based on absolutely nothing other than I don't want him to die :)

kristin | May 15, 2008 8:49:25 PM | #

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Shaggysteve-
The only other time we saw Daniel pull out that notebook (at least when we got to see the actual pages he was leafing through) was in the Constant, when he wrote himself a note from the past, to remember in the future. What if he knew about the secondary protocol in "another time" and wrote it down to remember it at this moment?

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:53:02 PM | #

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The press conference would probably be another one that would be good to freeze-frame. Seems like someone may have been hiding out there.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:53:03 PM | #

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Morgan-

That's what I was thinking too. I really hope they explore Daniel's story next season. His character seems to have a lot of potential.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 8:55:43 PM | #

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Daniel knows what's going to happen at the Orchid. He signed up to do experiments on the island, not get caught up in whatever "move the island" means. So, he needs to get off the island as soon as possible.

It could be a good call about Penny seing Charlie. But, the O6's story says they were on a deserted island all this time. How would a person in England make contact with a crash survivor through video-conferencing on an island in the middle of nowhere?? Doesn't really seem that it would match their story.

A-Rob | May 15, 2008 8:56:00 PM | #

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darlton did mention in a podcast that the other 2 people from the oceanic 8 didnt matter to the story, and implied we would never find out.

Morgan | May 15, 2008 8:56:23 PM | #

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If all 5 of them decided to "invest" in Paik's Company ... would they know about his involvement with Hanso/Widmore???

Erwin | May 15, 2008 8:56:52 PM | #

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Erwin-

I wouldn't think they would know, but what if Ben tells them?

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 9:00:49 PM | #

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Erwin-
and speaking of knowledge of investments, will hurley and john ever make the connection over the box company? most people who had connections prior to the show are finding out... (christian/sawyer/jack; christian/jack/claire; hurley/anna lucia/cop partner...)

Morgan | May 15, 2008 9:08:16 PM | #

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Sawyer is about to be on Jimmy Kimmel. Maybe he'll have an awesome clip from the two hour finale...

Morgan | May 15, 2008 9:10:24 PM | #

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Morgan-

I think the Hurley/Locke connection was just one of those six degrees of seperation deals. It really doesn't pertain to the story at all, just more of an easter egg.

Shaggysteve | May 15, 2008 9:13:05 PM | #

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Recap's live, y'all:

http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedlastnight/2008/05/lost-jigsaw-fal.html

Ryan | May 15, 2008 9:16:38 PM | #

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To comment on a probably way earlier post.. Locke was put up for adoption, but never adopted. He did have foster parents and siblings, as referenced in one of the Sawyer-centric episodes from season 1. So, his last name would still be whatever was given to him at birth.

oneblood | May 15, 2008 9:46:36 PM | #

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oneblood, thanks. My husband glommed onto Locke has the same name as his mother/grandmother immediately. Fostering was the only explanation I could think of, but it wasn't clear from this particular episode.

"concerned," wow. I particularly like, and agree with, your concept that "Lost" is best considered a long-form TV novel. We really won't grasp it all until we've seen the last episode (and/or reviewed the entire series on DVD).

Melissa, I like your idea that the island itself is "fed up" with the two factions. I don't think it will play out that way on the show, but I like the idea.

meggins | May 18, 2008 7:12:20 AM | #

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* AWESOME FINALE PROMO *

Just came across this new extended promo for the finale. No spoilers, just a new promo airing on ABC. It totally made my day. Definitely worth seeing. I can't wait to see the finale. I just know it's going to blow our minds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQsAtc-BDVw

Shaggysteve | May 18, 2008 10:51:54 AM | #

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