Well, it's the first Thursday without Lost. How are you doing? Doing OK? Need anything? A soda? A stiff drink? A hug? I hear ya. Absence supposedly makes the heart grow fonder, although given Sayid's reaction to running into Michael on the freighter, I think we all know that's not always the case.

But just because there's no Lost doesn't mean we can't act like it's business as usual around here. And that means, among other things, another edition of "Letters from the Flame," a recurring feature here on the blog in which I air reader comments and questions. It's our own little bit of democracy on an otherwise totalitarian site. Then again, I pick and choose what reader bits get published, so really, you're still under my thumb. Meet the new blogger, same as the old blogger.

Not as many questions this week, but those I received were quite good and deserve semi-lengthy replies. On with your inquiries! The first is from Stephen M.

I enjoy reading your recaps of Lost on Zap2it but a couple of your assumptions have me scratching my head. Near the end you state Ben took out those closest to his daughter. With the helicopter taking off [in "Ji Yeon"] and no signs of the sharpshooters on board, Ben warning his daughter they would do anything to her and the scenes to come with Locke's camp loading up their guns for battle, wouldn't you think that the freighter people have her?

First of all, I'm glad only a couple of my assumptions have you scratching your head. Usually people question every single assumption I make. So score on my part!

Part of my initial impression that the Others were in the brush taking out Karl and Danielle stemmed from my incorrect assessment that those were blow darts, not silenced bullets, flinging about there at the end. I didn't peg the Freighters as the blowdarting kind, so I ruled them out. In addition, everything we know about Ben indicates that he's three steps ahead of everyone. Given that he handed Alex and Company a map to the Temple, and that they were ambushed along that path, I figured he simply took out those who posed a threat to his supremacy via his psychic connection to Harper (another potentially head-scratching assumption, but one I think is in play).

Now, does the fact that bullets, not blowdarts, ended the life of Room 23's most recent occupant change my theory? No, but it means that your take is equally likely at this point. Gault and the military boys could have debriefed Faraday, figured out a strategy, and just happened upon Alex and Company while approaching from an unknown location. While "Meet Kevin Johnson" showed the military types to act like macho lunkheads, let's not assume they can't get the job done while on a mission.

My biggest reservation about the Freighters being the ones firing at the end of the episode then stems off Ben, and his seeming inability to be outmaneuvered this season. Having the Freighters essentially counter his move and take his most valuable piece of the metaphorical chessboard seems like a large stretch at this point. That being said, it would indeed raise Team Widmore to the level of equal adversary for Ben, which thus elevates the entire war.

Moreover, given that Ben's first line this season was him asking Danielle to take Alex to safety, it would be consistent motivation and psychology upon his part to try and send them to safety and NOT into a trap. (This sadly assumes Ben's telling the truth, and we all know what a slippery endeavor THAT is.) If there were an action that could start a literal war on the Island, you could do worse than kidnap Alex. Thus, if the freighters are there, I won't be disappointed, contingent upon the follow-up.

Let's look at a question from Jeff, who also has those Freighters on his mind.

Assuming the people who shot Danielle and Karl were the commandos from the freighter:

1) Do you think their agenda really is to exterminate everyone on the Island?
2) Why?

I have to think that the whole "everyone's gonna die" thing should be taken with a silo of salt. It's not quite as bad as a Jar Jar Binks "Yousa people gonna DIE?" but Ben's whole genocidal warnings could in fact be hiding a truth, one alluded to earlier: the capture of Alex could be the one thing that could bring Ben to his knees.

Remember, Ben's a master of emotional manipulation, but by the same token, is keenly aware of his own emotional weak spots. One of those is Annie, another is his mother, and the third is Alex. Just as Michael turned into the equivalent of a human zombie, mindlessly performing the will of others due to the loss of his son, so too might Ben be rendered powerless in the face of losing his daughter.

Remember, all this "daughter" talk is a straight-up lie, a lie so forcefully believed by Ben that we as an audience have a hard time remembering that it's a falsehood. Given his endeavors to propagate childbirth on the Island, one can only imagine the psychological devastation that would occur should Team Widmore get hold of her.

Having said all that, would G.I. Freighter have a problem poppin' a cap in a feisty Lostaway? Probably not. Are they there to Armgeddon It, Def Leppard-style? Probably not.

Having brought up Michael, Mark O. has a question about him...

Why does everybody hate or not care much for Michael's character?

Now there's a spin-off show: Everyone Hates Michael. Heh. It'd be just him running around shouting, "WAAAAAALT!" no matter the situation.

Fast Food Employee: You want fries with that?
Michael: WAAAAAAAALT!

Hilarity would ensue.

As to your actual question: I don't have any scientific backup here, but I think it's fair to say that Michael's not exactly a popular character on the show. He's no Paolo, but he sure as heck ain't no Desmond, neither. Did you miss him in Season 3? I didn't. Which means the story didn't need him. Thus, his absence mattered not.

Now, we do miss Walt though. The first Michael/Walt-centric episode, "Special," marked the second time strange things were afoot off-Island (with "Raised by Another" the first to imply mysterious forces off-Island as well as on), but "Special" brought the kooky and the crazy up-front with Walt's amazing Bird Killing Mind Trick. With "Special," one marked Walt as one to watch, while Michael just stood on the side and built rafts all season.

Now, with Walt's kidnapping, the show gave Michael's character a unique status: the father of a missing child somewhere on the Island. A compelling storyline in theory, but downright frustrating in execution. Rather than turning it into a situation in which he could have reached out to others in order to rescue Walt, the show instead turned him into a stubborn, pig-headed man who abandoned reason and logic in order to achieve his selfish goals. Live together, ride off on a boat alone.

Now, Michael's actions might make sense psychologically, but that doesn't mean that they worked dramatically. Season 2 already suffered from relationships established in Season 1 splintering at the seams (those on the beach versus those in the Hatch, the introduction of the Tailies taking screen time away from Lostaways), and with Michael's descent into himself, he ceased to be part of the collective whole of the show and splintered off into his own agenda. Plus, he instantly tossed aside all good will earned by killing Ana-Lucia by then capping Libby. Party foul, Michael. Party foul.

I look at all this the way I look at Season 6 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer ("growing up is angsty"): yes, I know what the show's going for, but that doesn't mean it translated into completely enjoyable television, either. Michael's redemption arc might go a ways towards repairing the damage done by Season 2 to his character. But the widespread knowledge of Michael's return seemingly gave a lot of people time to remember that they didn't much miss him in the first place, stunting both the surprise of his reveal and the impact of "Meet Kevin Johnson" as a whole.

Now that we've treaded along the topic of spoilerish info, let's go to the last question of the week, from Blue Sean.

What do you make of Darlton [in this week's official Lost podcast] giving the code name of the jaw-dropping scene in the finale as "The Frozen Donkey Wheel"?

Here's what I make of it: absolutely nothing. Why? Because they've taught me to do so.

I'm not going to pick at old scabs here, but c'mon: they've told us time and time and time again that the only thing that matters is the show. Period. An interview highlighted to me by reader Sean R. has this whopper in it from Damon:

So, watching the show Lost, you watch it and the data is there for you to form whatever theories you have, and you can't factor in anything that even the creators or actors are saying about the show outside of the show, because at the end of the day the show will be processed in six DVD box sets.

Hear that, people? They don't want you listening to them talk, reading what they've said, or engage the show in any meaningful way outside of the episodes themselves. Now, that's perfectly within their rights, and I can understand the pressure involved in hedging every answer in every interview lest you give away too much too soon. I get it, honestly. But it's also within my rights to avoid anything and everything Lost-related up to the return of new episodes of Season 4. It works both ways.

Now, maybe that's a bit harsh of an assessment, I know. And I don't really bring that much vitriol to the table, because I simply can't be bothered to do so. I spent the last two years soaking up every bit of Lost that was served up, in the form of ARGs, DVD commentaries, podcasts, mobisodes, webisodes, videogames, interviews, enhanced episodes...and more fool me, turns out that was all a pleasant diversion meant to put my eyeballs near advertising. And yes, many of you took them as such from the get go, and love to tell me how stupid we all were for trying to apply the Valenzetti Equation to Room 23, and hey, awesome, y'all. Congratulations. Here's a handshake and a $10 coupon to Red Lobster for being right from the get go.

So they can call the secret scene "The Hidden Donkey Wheel" if that tickles their fancy. More power to 'em. They produce a fantastic television program, but the problem is, they seem to know it. And that makes things like "The Hidden Donkey Wheel" arrogant, not clever. They want me to parse that out? No thanks. I spent two years parsing out non-episode related material, and you told me and millions just like me that it was a fool's errand. I guess that makes us the donkey, and you've run us over with your wheel, Darlton. Enjoy the title of your scene, guys: I'll enjoy it when it airs in May.

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And on that happy note, I'm bringing this week's edition of "Letters From the Flame" to a close. Remember, there's still time to vote for the topics you'd liked discussed in the weeks until Season 4 starts up again. Vote early, vote often!

Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.

Comments

I, like most of us here, try to get as much LOST info as I can. I visit multiple sites, read magazines, and spend hours playing an ARG. Now I know I must take everything I read with a silo of salt. The writers, especially Darlton, are extremely brilliant in their profession. I had always thought they wrote, not for money, but for the love of good television. LOST, in my opinion, is the most unique, thought-provoking series to ever hit the airwaves. To read that paragraph about how at the end of the day it will be processed into 6 DVD box sets makes me angry. They're just screwing with us now. WAAAAAAALLLLLTTTTTT!!!

Shaggysteve | Mar 27, 2008 7:46:38 PM | #

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More random thoughts:

1. I read somewhere that there will actually be two DVD sets: the super-duper-deluxe-all-the-bells-and-whistles boxed set for those of us who madly peruse sites like this for something...anything!...to feed our need. Or just because we ran out of nasty diseases to look up on WebMD. For the casual viewer, there will be a single DVD with two hours of white noise, followed by the creators sitting in front of a black screen, saying, "We have no idea what all the fuss was about...we were just making a Hawaiian travel video and somebody put it on the air."

2. Hidden Donkey Wheel kinda reminds me of some super secret Jackie Chan martial arts move that was taught for sixteen seconds in 1952 by a Shaolin Monk who was born in 1729 and died soon thereafter. Something having to do with a roundhouse kick and a Democrat in a bathroom stall. Or maybe it's some kind of I Ching reference, describing the circular logic of the plot of Lost and how only the most stubborn will stick around for the ending, where all will be laid bare. Until the inevitable TV reunion show, when Evangeline Lilly will be revealed to have been a Cylon named #5122C-A.

3. In all seriousness, I rarely do listen to the creators when they're discussing their show, nor do I visit a lot of other websites devoted to Lost. Why? Because I am already teetering on the edge of the rubber room with the lovely burlap wrap-around T-shirt with straps, and I don't need to add to the voices in my head, thank you very much. Thus, if Darlton have said something about a donkey wheel that is hidden, I'll just presume that they mistook their bottle of Listerine for absinthe and swallowed half of it. You see some strange things when you're lit.

4. I've always considered Michael and Walt to be the least important of all the characters on the show, and this may be something the creators did on purpose: to convince some of us who are (ahem) more interested in checking out Kate's and Claire's backsides in wet denim than wondering just Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaalt and Vincent have been up to. Speaking of, where's the dog? Did Sawyer finally throw the tennis ball far enough out into surf that Vincent got caught in the undertow? Did Locke kill the poor creature for its fur, since he missed out on the polar bear back in season one? Or is Vincent in one of The Others' houses, sipping Perrier from a diamond-encrusted dog dish and chuckling as only dogs can do, while everyone else gets muddy and rained on? Where was I? Oh, yeah, part of the reason I never cared for Michael is that he always seemed a tag-along, even though Walt was given some important reasons for being on The Island. In the beginning, Michael was just...there. And giving drinking game afficionados a reason to hoist a glass of Jack D's and swig a few rounds. Waaaaaaaaaaaaalt!

5. What's so scary about this post? I'm typing it while stone-cold sober. Insanity is all in the mind, y'ken...now where's that bottle of Glenfiddich?

Dark Disciple | Mar 27, 2008 8:47:22 PM | #

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well, you'll get the 6 DVD box sets, but 2-3 years later they'll release the "enhanced" version that we'll have to go buy later...

sorry, apparently, i soaked up ryan's excess vitriol.

:-)

love ya Lost, mean it!

mri | Mar 27, 2008 8:52:03 PM | #

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I don't know. I really liked Michael and Walt and it's not because of them just being the only minorities on the main cast besides Sun, Jin, and Hurley. I guess it is because I know what lengths a father would go for his son, which rings true to me because of a personal experience with me and my own father. We were strangers to each other (even though we lived in the same house!), but started to get to know one another after I was thrown in a psychiatric hospital. My dad turned a 7 hour trip to a 3 1/2 trip to get me out of there. So I guess that's why I feel Michael's plight.

What he did was very unforgivable, but like I told "Concerned" in the last blog:
Concerned: I feel your sentiments, but a lot of people I talked to prior and during the events really didn't like Ana Lucia (you would not believe how many arguments I got into trying to defend her actions). Libby was a mistake and I don't think he was intending on killing her. Simply wrong place wrong time. And the fact that no one ever told Michael to kill Ana Lucia and Libby was only emphasized in "Meet Kevin Johnson". Also keep in mind that Ana Lucia killed Shannon, which most would say was in total fear, but others would say was just plain stupidity and paranoia. Also, Ben said it best (even though he is partly, if not completely, to blame for this all happening) in that what would a man do for his son? ALSO, I believe that Michael was more distraught and hurt over the fact that he killed Libby than he did Ana Lucia. Why else would Libby be haunting him rather than Ana Lucia?

Mark O. Estes | Mar 27, 2008 9:27:57 PM | #

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Mark - Thanks for your comments regarding Michael... you raise some good points, which I shall keep in mind. (Sorry I didn't get a chance to acknowledge your comments when they were first posted in the previous blog.)

Thouh I think I pretty much agree with Ryan's response. In any case, I'll be very interested to see if/how/when Walt forgives Michael.

My dad died (of cancer) over ten years ago (at only 59 years of age), and one of the biggest regrets of my life is that it wasn't until a few years ago that I stopped focusing on all of the deficiences of my (as well as my two sisters and brother's) childhood and realized just how hard it is for a working man to support a wife and four kids, and started appreciating all he did do for us and all the time he spent with us. Wish I could tell him.

(Smokey, where are you?)

"concerned" | Mar 28, 2008 12:40:15 AM | #

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On the lighter side, regarding tonight's "enhanced" rerun, I thoroughly enjoyed re-experiencing a couple of humorous moments I had almost forgotten about:

1) Sawyer drinking a beer while Juliet does hard physical labor;

2) Rose telling Claire, with a certain inflection in her voice, that when her man (Charlie) returns she'd better treat him right.

Of course the main reason I tuned in (since I have it on tape) was the hope that perhaps Darlton did the pop-ups this time and something interesting would, well, pop up. Boy was I wrong! It seemed like they were intended for people who had never seen the show before.

And yet, I'm somewhat embarrased to admit that I hadn't noticed the chalkboard drawing (in the scene between Hurley and Abaddon) until the pop-up pointed it out (even though, surprisingly, it let the igloo drawing pass without comment).

I don't recall previous mention of this chalkboard drawing... does anybody else? Was there anything of signficance to it? I think I saw a raft, island, shark, sun/starfish, etc. Is there any significance to this?

Surprisingly, even with the pop-up distraction I still got emotional each time Hurley got emotional over Charlie's death. In fact, feeling Hurley's pain got me much more emotional (even this second time around) than I got when Charlie actually died, due to it being seemingly pointless (had time to close door on way out) and despite the nice cinematic touches (slow-mo, underwater, melodramatic music, etc). Anyone else have the same reaction (if you can remember)?

"concerned" | Mar 28, 2008 1:01:00 AM | #

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Regarding The Frozen Donkey Wheel and/or The Hidden Donkey Wheel, can someone on this list please (briefly) elaborate on what they said, for the sake of those of us who swore off listening to the podcasts long ago?

(As much as I like Carton Cuse, I really found Damen annoying -- and this was long before his now infamous "what does it matter, it's not cannon" remark and the related joke-ending of the game. So I decided I'd better stop listening to anything with Lindelof in it lest I start to lose interest in LOST itself.)

As a guess, without knowing anything, I would think that "frozen donkey" means a shock ending, something where about the only thing you could cut to after the final shot of the episode would be a shot of a donkey staring in shock at what just happened. (Anybody tried googling "frozen donkey"? I haven't because I stay away from all Lost sites except this one. Plus I'm lazy.)

And I seem to remember them using the term "wheel" a lot, but I don't remember if it meant something like "character arc" or just some thing or theme that the show revists on occasion.

In any case, Ryan, you're reaction to so many of Lindeloff's recent comments (and laughs) makes me glad I swore off the (Darlton) podcasts long ago.

"concerned" | Mar 28, 2008 1:15:06 AM | #

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Concerned: I appreciate you sharing your story and I am glad that you shared why you thought that way about Michael in the last post. As for the podcast, which was ironic because I was listening to it when MY BOY BLUE asked the question about the Frozen Donkey Wheel. It is basically a code word for the scene that only the writers know about that will happen in the season finale. Last year's code was Rattlesnake in A Mailbox, which described last seasons shocker of seeing Kate and Jack on the tarmac in the flash-forward.

So God only knows what Frozen Donkey Wheel means this year...

Mark O. Estes | Mar 28, 2008 2:04:03 AM | #

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"concerned": I brought up the igloo in my initial recap of the ep:

http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedlastnight/2008/01/premierewatch-l.html

I thought it might be an allusion to the men employed by Penny at the end of Season 2.

Ryan | Mar 28, 2008 7:01:24 AM | #

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I think I mentioned this many a blog-post ago, but prior to the start of this season, I watched all of S1 through S3 on DVD, at a rate of 2-4 episodes a day. And one thing I found is that watching the show in that much-more-compressed time frame changed my perspective on a lot of things.

One of those things was that both Shannon and Michael (and to a lesser extent, Ana Lucia) came off as much more sympathetic and relatable than they did in the initial airing.

I think at least part of the reason for this is when you have to go a week (or two or four) between one episode and the next, and when answers to questions are (very) few and (very) far between, and when you have a sizeable ensemble cast, and when you have favorite characters and there's only limited screen time to go around -- it is very easy to get annoyed when that eagerly-anticipated episode turns out to focus on a less-favored character.

And when that less-favored character, who rarely is given anything useful or sympathetic to do or say, turns around and offs Libby, a favored character (if only because she's Hurley's love interest, and Hurley's totally The Man), even if only by accident ... well, 'less-favored' quickly becomes 'least-favored'.

Well, 2nd-least-favored. After Jack(ass).

I don't know. My thoughts on Michael have gone back-and-forth. I can appreciate and admire the motive of protecting his son at all costs, and that self-centered wench of an ex-wife (to put it in a family-friendly way) certainly upped the sympathy factor, but I still find it hard to like Mike.

DanC | Mar 28, 2008 7:20:08 AM | #

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After re-reading what I just wrote, I'd add that it is not just the issue of this character vs. that, but also a question of more-favored vs. less-favored plot lines.

For example, one of the chief things that made Stranger in a Strange Land so awful is that it answered a 'question' nobody cared about and that had no real bearing on any significant plot line that we have ever seen. It was a completely wasted episode (and the fact it was Jack-centric just added insult to injury).

It didn't even have Christian in it, I don't think, which might have redeemed it ever-so-slightly. (And if he WAS in it, then clearly not enough to add that bit o' redemption.)

On the other hand, Hurley's We-Must-Fix-This-Van episode was one of my favorites, despite it being somewhat of a tangential episode as well. Then again, it WAS a Hurley episode, so it had to be good, right?

DanC | Mar 28, 2008 7:27:45 AM | #

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By the way, Sean R.=Blue Sean. I am a man of many identities.

Here is the interview I sent to Ryan. I thought it was pretty interesting overall.

http://www.ugo.com/tv/lost/?cur=darlton

Blue Sean | Mar 28, 2008 7:50:27 AM | #

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By the way, the above link doesn't contain any major spoilers. Only hints as to what is to come this season, but nothing like "(blank) will die in episode (blank)".

Blue Sean | Mar 28, 2008 7:53:13 AM | #

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As to who shot at Alex,Karl & Danielle. Didn't Lapdis take the helicopter on an errand? Was Keamy on the ship during the Meet Kevin Johnson ep.?

Dee | Mar 28, 2008 8:53:01 AM | #

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Are Keamy & friends on their way to the barracks and just happened to run into the trio and killed them to avoid the spoiling the element of surprise?

Dee | Mar 28, 2008 8:58:01 AM | #

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For those intersted, according to the podcasast, the Frozen Donkey Wheel is not the last scene in the final episode this season, it is one that preceeds it.

Riz | Mar 28, 2008 9:17:06 AM | #

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My take on everyone disliking Michael is that is one of two things: 1)Horrible storyline writing, which, in my opinion, may be the more unlikely since Lost generally has good writing OR 2)This is what the producers/writers/actor intended for some reason that will serve the greater purpose of the closure of the storyline. I think it is the latter since, again, we generally see good writing on Lost, because we know the producers and writers are excellent at manipulating us, and because I have seen Perrineau (Michael) in other things I find him to be a very effective and entertaining actor (and highly likeable when desired).

AndreaC | Mar 28, 2008 10:03:51 AM | #

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Andrea: Agreed, I'm not Harold P. superfan or anything, but I don't really blame my ambivalence towards Michael on him anymore than I blame Locke's lameness this season on Terry O'Quinn. I get there are dramatic purposes to the choices assigned to those characters, but that doesn't mean that they always translate well upon viewing.

Ryan | Mar 28, 2008 11:00:47 AM | #

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I think one of the inherent flaws with this show, or any ensemble show really, are characters that only work as a duo and not stand on their own two feet. This show has ALOT of duo's in it; Michael and Walt, Jin and Sun, Bernard and Rose, Desmond and Penny, Juliet and Ben, Jack and Kate/Sawyer and Kate.

However, the difference between the first group I just mentioned and the second group I just mentioned is that the second group are all characters that function by themselves; they don't "need" their partner to function within the narrative. Penny was just "Desmond's chick" for a long time, but it wasn't until the end of last season, when we found out her father was actually the Machiavellian supervillain of the off-Island world, that Penny's role became so much more - as a counterpoint to Charles, her quest to find Desmond possibly unravelling her dad's schemes.

Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Ben, Juliet, they all function just fine by themselves. Their partnerships make for interesting episodes, but they don't have to be together. This isn't true for people like Sun and Jin. The future death (supposedly?) of Jin may dramatically elevate or utterly destroy Sun's character. Likewise, perhaps Sun getting off the Island was so devastating to their dynamic that there was nowhere for Jin to go but death.

And this is the problem with Michael and Walt. The show played up Walt's power from the get-go, and we always assumed that would build up over time. His appearance to Locke only heightened that belief. So to see him dismissed with a single camera shot (with a different actor) in "Meet Kevin Johnson" was so dissapointing. When the realization that Walt's part in the Lost story might be over, Michael became an afterthought. His story was always linked to Walt's, and even when he turned into a murdering weasel in Season 2, it was at least all because of Walt, and we the audience knew this.

So now that Walt is probably gone, why should we care about Michael? Is he really strong enough of a character on his own? If the answer to that question is "no", then it's a good bet he'll end up like Future Jin before this season ends.

Other Sean | Mar 28, 2008 11:11:44 AM | #

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Oh, another perfect example: Boone and Shannon! Darlton even admitted that once Boone died, Shannon's character had nowhere to go so that's why they killed her, too.

Other Sean | Mar 28, 2008 11:14:10 AM | #

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Other Sean-

excellent point w/ WAAAAAAAAALLLLLT. he was built up at the beginning with the whole polar bear comic book thing.

as far as Michael's future on the show goes, i'd put some money on him being gone as soon as the Island will let him. anybody know if Harold P.'s got a DUI? i'm pretty sure if he did that the Island would be through with him. :-)

mri | Mar 28, 2008 11:22:34 AM | #

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I love everybody's response to the Michael question, but I have to disagree a lot with Other Sean on the part of Michael.

OS: Great point about the duos cause I feel the same way, but on the subject of Michael and Sun, I would have to stray and say that I think both can uphold their own with the other characters on the show. Yunjin Kim proved this with "Ji Yeon" and to me she outshined everyone in that episode (IMO) hands down. Harold P. is (also IMHO) great in everything he does and I really agree with Ryan and AndreaC. on the actors just doing what they are told when it comes to their characters. But I guess that I identify more with Michael and Walt's storyline than I did with anyone else's.

And I agree on Shannon and Boone. After watching Season One and Two again I couldn't help but feel like Shannon and Boone were the prototypes for Nikki and Paulo.

Mark O. Estes | Mar 28, 2008 11:37:30 AM | #

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MRI: That's so freaking hilarious! As far as I know he doesn't though...

Mark O. Estes | Mar 28, 2008 11:41:07 AM | #

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Oh, see, I miss Boone and Shannon. I know Shannon wasn't a great character, but I was looking forward to seeing Shannon grow and change, but of course, I will admit, I too did not care about Shannon once they killed Boone. I'm still mad about that one, though! I feel like the writers did that because they were bored and felt someone needed to die for shock value.

AndreaC | Mar 28, 2008 12:18:06 PM | #

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Letters to the FLAME
aka WAAAAAALT!!!

Here's a backstory question to consider: If Richard and the original Other were the (assumed) indigenous population of the island, how did the Dharma Initiative find the Island? Also, why did the Others not just kill them all when they got off their boat or whatever method of conveyance Dharma employees used to migrate to the Island?

Did Dharma know the Island was populated? Were the Others really there first? I ask the second question because it seems like the Dharma Initiative built a LOT of stuff on that Island right under the Others' noses, without there being a squabble about it. I seem to recall Richard mentioning to younger Ben that there was an agreement or something, and it had been violated, but I don't remember if I remember that correctly.

What part does Jacob play in all this? Is he the 'actual' original island inhabitant? Is he 'really' the Island? Is Jacob an extension of the Island, or perhaps is the Island an extension of Jacob? Or are they even related?

I don't think the Temple is another Dharma station, by the way. During the purge, the Others apparently wiped out all the Dharma people they knew of, which apparently was everyone in the Arrow, Flame, Barracks, Tempest and Looking Glass stations (I probably missed one or two there, I know). The Others apparently knew nothing of the Swan or the numbers (the Swan was the 'numbers' station, right?), because that station was untouched and not abandoned. Does it stand to reason there may be more Dharma bases unknown to the Others? My new theory is that the Temple is where the Others originally lived before they moved into the Barracks after the Purge (or New Otherton, if you will). And if New Otherton is 'New' then shouldn't we assume there's an 'Old' out there, too?

Has anyone yet postulated that Annie's last name might have been Widmore?

This one goes back awhile, but it's something I've always wondered and I'm a newcomer to the blog: Locke, while apparently trying to figure out the secrets of the Island, can't bring himself to kill his father when presented with the opportunity, but he seems to have absolutely no qualms at all about knifing Naomi in the back. Why the shift?

And honestly, if Ben shot me and left me for dead in an open mass grave, I might - just maybe - bear him some level of ill-will later on. However, Locke's now letting him have free run of the place. What up wit dat?

PS: I'm glad they killed Shannon. She was an annoying, useless bitch.

AdSlinger | Mar 28, 2008 1:01:35 PM | #

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I got my fill of Boone when Ian S. appeared on "Tell Me You Love Me" this past Fall. I also got my fill of naked Boone butt thanks to that show as well. That's one less secret that the Island now holds, y'all.

Ryan | Mar 28, 2008 1:02:34 PM | #

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I miss Shannon for entirely different reasons than most of you. But that's just me.

Other Sean- You really think Walt is done? I didn't get that impression at all. Point is, we know they all have to go back to the Island. Who's to say Walt doesn't have to go back too. Even though he isn't one of the Oceanic Six doesn't mean the Island doesn't want him back.

Blue Sean | Mar 28, 2008 1:04:14 PM | #

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know it's impossible, but if Abbadon turns out to be WAAAAALLLT how WAAAAALLLLLT-ing cool woud that be?

mri | Mar 28, 2008 1:27:27 PM | #

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I'm confused about the Temple being a DHARMA station as well. Unless it's near a station but isn't one itself. The other possibility is maybe DHARMA set up shop at the ruins of a temple to study it.

I've caught a glimpse at some concept art of the Temple and it sure don't look like a DHARMA station to me.

Jeff | Mar 28, 2008 1:57:08 PM | #

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Then again, considering what I saw was related to the production of Via Domus, it's probably not canon anyways.

Jeff | Mar 28, 2008 2:00:35 PM | #

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Walt as Abbadon? What on earth would Michael shout for the rest of the show's run? ABBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!? That could get confusing. And now, having read the previous posts, I'm having to rethink my opinion about Michael. Dammit, just when I've got the guy pegged, somebody with a bigger peg comes along and bashes me over the head with it. Good thoughts about the two characters, though, which is why blogs like this exist.

Dark Disciple | Mar 28, 2008 2:19:15 PM | #

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Speaking of Via Domus, it is now $29.99, a vast drop in price than it was a month ago. I am going to wait till it hits 24.99 and swipe it up. I knew it wasn't going to be long before the price dropped...

Mark O. Estes | Mar 28, 2008 3:31:27 PM | #

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AdSlinger-

You bring up some good points.

Although not proven, I think we are to believe that the original inhabitants of the Island came from the Black Rock. However, this does not quite explain the 4-toed statue that may pre-date the Black Rock.

As far as how the Dharma Initiative came about using this particular Island to conduct their experiments, that has yet to be explained. It is obvious that the Island has special characteristics that make it ripe for scientific experiments. Perhaps we will eventually get an Island flash-back to explain the history of it. THAT would be cool.

I guess we are to assume that the Others did not know of the Swan or they let it continue to exist due to its importance. Kelvin was there for awhile, and didn't seem to know others existed on the Island. He did however wear a radiation suit whenever he did leave the Hatch, knowing it was not safe outside.

That leads to another question. If Dharma was long gone from the Island, why were there still food drops?

Shaggysteve | Mar 28, 2008 3:36:05 PM | #

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Shaggysteve, I think I can elaborate a bit on your observations

1) The DHARMA Initiative came about using this particular Island because of Alvar Hanso, grandson of Magnus Hanso, captain of the Black Rock. I think it's safe to assume at this point that the Island's location was made known to Alvar somehow through the family history.

2) Kelvin did know others existed on the Island and in fact it was him who first referred to the Others as the Hostiles.

3) As far as the food drops are concerned, according to the first ARG regular food drops were set up by the Hanso Foundation/DHARMA to be made in perpetuity.

Mark, that is a significant reduction in price. It's now the same price of the PC version (which I bought).

And hows this for late-breaking news? Apparently there's rumour that Find815 is coming back! Source: http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2008/03/find815-coming-back.html

Jeff | Mar 28, 2008 4:44:40 PM | #

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Concerning Find815.com returning....

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF WWAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLTTTTTT!!!!!!!!

Mark O. Estes | Mar 28, 2008 4:52:47 PM | #

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Yeah, I'm not sure how I take that news either. I liked playing the game. I even waited at times until things were unlocked. I would then read blogs that uncovered some of the hidden pictures and messages to the game. It was a well thought out game. I just don't know how much I can appreciate, and therefore play the game, when I know it is NC. Unless this time around they (Darlton and/or other writers/producers) are actually involved with the game.

Shaggysteve | Mar 28, 2008 5:19:28 PM | #

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As a web designer and Flash developer, I really dig Find815. Even if it's not canon, I liked having something to fill the Lost void that I could check up on daily.

Jeff | Mar 28, 2008 5:34:55 PM | #

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Mark - Thank you for your appreciation, and thank you for your explanation of the Frozen Donkey. (I don't know how they are going to top last season's [flash-forward] shocker -- it got me [fair and square] hook, line, and sinker!)

Ryan - I did remember you talking about the drawing of the igloo (and one of Penny's workers apparently), but I didn't remember this sentence: "And I swear I saw the Dharma shark on the blackboard in the room in which Hurley was playing Connect Four." [Ryan, Jan 31, 2008 9:15:43 PM]

So you do get full marks (as the brits say) after all. Do you think the chalkboard drawing holds any clues, or is it just a nice visual thematic backdrop to the discussion between Hurley and Abaddon?

DanC - I had a very similar reaction a few months ago when I rented and re-watched the first three seasons as well, especially regarding Shannon and Anna Lucia -- and Hurley's van episode, which like you I also thoroughly enjoyed when watching the DVDs. Like you say, you don't mind sidetracks since you don't have to wait weeks or months for the next episodes. But, as you indicated, there are limits: I've put a lifetime ban on ever watching "Stranger in a Strange Land" again. (Despite liking the Heinlein book a lot as a kid.)

(I guess the phrase is originally from the Bible... at least, I know it's a line of dialog Charlton Heston speaks in "The Ten Commandments.") (Which could almost be a very long episode of Lost, when you consider all of the extremely dramatic father/son issues dealt with. Banning anyone in your kingdom from even speaking your son's name, then on your deathbed, with your last breath, speaking his name? It don't get much better than that.)

Other Sean - I generally agree with your duo analysis, especially as pertains to Michael & Walt, except for the following: "Darlton even admitted that once Boone died, Shannon's character had nowhere to go so that's why they killed her, too."

I think it would be more accurate to say that once she really, truly beleived she was loved by somebody(Sayid) that she was no longer "lost" and thus (like has happened with some other characters) could "move on" from (what often seems to be) the island of purgatory (or, if you prefer, lost souls).

(Though it would have been nice for her, and Sayid -- and those of us who miss her -- if she could have enjoyed being happy for a while first before "moving on".)

At any rate, the larger issue behind this (and so many other Darlton quotes, especially those by Damen), is that I think we'd all be a lot better off if the writers just stuck to writing the show and stopped doing interviews, podcasts, etc. For so often, when "live", they don't live up to the level of their work.

On the other hand, I did love Evangeline Lilly on some late night TV talk show shortly before the end of the third season talking about how when she first read the script (for the 3rd season finale) and got to the end it sent chills up her spine -- that increased my anticipation of the finale even beyond it's already intense level. And, as I've previously indicated, I was completely surprised by the ending and thoroughly enjoyed it and was moved by it. Perhaps even more so since I knew Evee herself was blown away by it. Well done, Evangeline.

"concerned" | Mar 28, 2008 11:45:52 PM | #

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I am glad other people liked Shannon as much as I did. I agree "Concerned" that Shannon could have moved on with Sayid and brought more to her character. Even though I loved her, I still felt that she and Boone were first season's Nikki and Paulo in the sense that they had a tendency of being in the way sometimes and/or just a problem in other times, mainly Boone. I am glad Walt came to his senses at the end of season one and saw Locke as the crazed fool that he is. If Boone would have had half a brain to the same then maybe he would be still here... and then again maybe not...

Mark O. Estes | Mar 29, 2008 12:36:37 AM | #

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I didn't mind Shannon all that much. However, she was acting like a spoiled brat for most of Season 1, and I do think she was used more for eye candy than part of the story. But I seem to remember Jack or Christian killing her Father I believe. Therefore she was conning Boone out of money because she knew he loved her. That being said, I don't think there was much more they could do with their storylines. I know Ian S. was up for a pilot, which is why he left. I guess the writer's felt there was no where else they could take Shannon's character without Boone. Yes she was with Sayid, but we know his true love was Nadia.

Shaggysteve | Mar 29, 2008 9:31:24 AM | #

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Shaggy- It was Jack who vicariously killed Shannon's father. Shannon's dad was in a car accident with Sarah (Jack's future wife) and he had to choose which patient to save and chose Sarah.

Blue Sean | Mar 29, 2008 2:10:44 PM | #

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Wow, I so totally did not know that about the connection between jack/shannon('s dad). I seriously need to use this "off time" before Lost Season Part Deux starts to re-watch the earlier seasons....

Thanks Blue (and Shaggy) for pointing out that interesting little tidbit ...! Much appreciate it.

djc | Mar 29, 2008 5:18:56 PM | #

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No brilliant insights to add, only two questions:

If the killers/kidnappers of Alex were from the freighter, how did they know where to intercept her? How would they een know she was available to be kidnapped?

When Charlie mentioned the freighter to Penny shortly before his death, she said "What boat?" But Minkowski later tells Desmond she was calling the boat all the time. Does she know more about her father's affairs than we have been led to believe?

William Robinson | Mar 29, 2008 5:54:36 PM | #

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William- I tend to believe that, if the freighter-folk are to blame for the killing of Karl and (possibly) Danielle, this was not their plan. The landed some place on the other side of the Island and just happened across them. If Alex hadn't have stood up screaming that she was Ben's daughter, she would have probably been killed too.

As to your other point, I think that Penny's "call" is more like her transmitting a signal that anyone can intercept. The freighter-folk were told not to accept calls from a certain coordinate because it was Penny, so this is how Minkowski knew she was calling.

That's how I make sense of it anyway.

Blue Sean | Mar 29, 2008 7:52:10 PM | #

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As Big Brother as this might be (but I wouldn't put it past Big Ben), maybe all of the inhabitants of The Island (pre-815, I mean) are equipped with subcutaneous tracking devices, so that if any of them were to get lost or injured while out in the jungle, they could be found relatively quickly. I could see Ben using that kind of technology for nefarious purposes. Hell, if they can get the Red Sox, why not a tracking system?

Dark Disciple | Mar 29, 2008 7:57:30 PM | #

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Although, now that I've already clicked the "Post" button down yonder, that doesn't quite explain Rousseau, now does it? Grumble, grumble, grumble...

Dark Disciple | Mar 29, 2008 7:59:10 PM | #

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it could be that penny said what boat because she wanted to know if it was the one she had been contacting, or maybe she had been calling boats all the time. she did say that she had been doing research...on the island.

XXO | Mar 30, 2008 6:13:37 PM | #

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<>

No, it's not just you. I was starting to wonder about you guys :-)

Tom | Mar 31, 2008 1:03:35 PM | #

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"I miss Shannon for entirely different reasons than most of you. But that's just me."

Bleh, it edited out the quote...

Tom | Mar 31, 2008 1:04:41 PM | #

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More vitrol. Yay.

Is every post going to turn into a bitch fest about how stuff outside the show isn't canon? Sure looks like it.

If you don't want to absorb or discuss the ancillary materials, then just ignore them. Don't answer questions about them. But the rants about that got tiresome about ten blogs ago.

People come here to read about analysis of the show. I don't care about your issues with canon/non-canon, and if I did, you made those issues perfectly clear many times over already. In all seriousness, if you are going to keep beating this dead horse instead of actually discussing the show, it gives me second thoughts about whether this blog is worth reading. It almost makes me wonder if zap2it should find someone else to write about the show who can actually write about the show instead of using it to air grievances about TPTB.

My two cents. And personally, I find the nickname "the frozen donkey wheel" hilarious. As well as anyone who thinks it's a clue to be analyzed.

milo | Apr 1, 2008 8:08:39 AM | #

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(just fixing tom's mess)

good samaritan | Apr 1, 2008 7:35:32 PM | #

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