I've been thinking about lists over the past twenty-four hours. And not just grocery lists, either, although Lord knows we need some butter in these parts. No, I'm more concerned with the list-happy members of Lost. Seems you can't go a few episode of this show without a new list popping up, now can you?

Last week, I unveiled my "Sins of the Fathers Theory" of Lost, in which I stated that one could look at the events of the show as the result of the baby boomer generation heaping their shortcomings upon their unwitting offspring. I thought this was an interesting way to view the show, given that our historical moment is rife with baby boomers about to collect Social Security in a world that falls well short of the idealistic goals of their youth.

But there's another historical trend at work, and one that I believe ties in with the pervasive list-making in the show. At the risk of turning this blog overtly political, we're in a world in which we as ordinary citizens are not always entirely sure who, on a macro level, is in charge. That is to say: we know there are governments, and bodies that nominally regulate daily events, but do we truly know or believe that to be the ultimate reality?

I think of some of my favorite genre shows of recent years: Lost. Heroes. Firefly. Shows in which the protagonists find themselves constantly searching for those people pulling the strings around them. And what do they tend to find? Not governments, but corporations. Private entities that truly wield the purse strings and enact the secret power plays that place our protagonists in the situations in which we are viewers find them.

(Spoilers on Heroes and Firefly in the next paragraph.)

The Widmore Corporation. The Company. The Blue Sun Corporation. All acting outside governmental rule (albeit often with their assistance on some level), all with agendas that act nominally in the best interests of humanity but who hide an often sinister agenda. Widmore seeks to save the world from the Valenzetti Equation, but opts for mass genocide as a viable option by which to achieve this goal. (Widmore's involvement is speculative at this point, but likely.) The Company seeks global harmony via viruses and plots to destroy New York City. And Blue Sun sought to restore order to a calamitous galaxy through the introduction of gases into terraformed planets in order to make its inhabitants more docile.

I'd argue these shows all point to a latent concern in today's society that corporations, not governments, truly run the show. The protagonists' fight against these forces isn't any pro-government mantra on behalf of the shows, so much as a way to celebrate individual freedoms and the ability to make one's way in the world in one's own way. As long as these forces remain a mystery to the protagonists, they remain a mystery to us as well, and as such tap into our our modern fears that we are not as in control of our lives as we'd like to think.

As such, one can look at the list-making in Lost as multiple forces conscripting the players of the show into a war in which the stakes are truly clear to only a few, largely unseen players. It's up to the ground soldiers (if you will) to question their orders, and their incessant questioning both drives the narrative and raises the stakes. Having spent an entire season fighting the Others (and ultimately "winning"), Jack and the Lostaways soon learn that their victory might have in fact been a fatal loss. The ripples effect from that victory echoes throughout Season 4 and should echo long into Season 6.

What do you make of the list-making on the show? Is it representative of a cultural moment or simply an interesting device for the show to use? And why do certain people end up on certain lists?

Drop your comments below, or email me your thoughts/questions on the matter. I'll publish the best comments and questions in tomorrow's edition of "Letters from The Flame".

Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.

Comments

As someone who is border-line OCD, I tend to make a lot of lists in my everyday life.

I'm a strong believer that there was an original list made of people who were supposed to be on Oceanic 815. How they got on this list is up for debate, but I do believe they were put on there for a reason.

Because there at least 2 entities (corporation or group) fighting over control of the Island, there are now seperate lists at play. Sooner or later we'll find out who and how the Oceanic 6 got off the Island, but there is certainly a list involved with them for whatever reason.

Everybody will have a part in what happens in the end, and there will surely be a list as to who will play what part in the grand scheme of things.

On a side note, Ryan, I was wondering which e-mail you prefer us to use? In the past you've had a yahoo account listed, but now you have a g-mail account listed.

Shaggysteve | Feb 26, 2008 5:17:49 PM | #

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Steve: both work just fine.

Ryan | Feb 26, 2008 5:30:36 PM | #

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Then I hope you got my messages over the weekend. It's some good stuff. Looking forward to hearing your perspective.

Shaggysteve | Feb 26, 2008 5:43:09 PM | #

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Ryan - where did you get that corporation from in heroes? aren't you confused at all with prison break?

By the way, when are you gonna make a list of must "go" characters on lost (like the ever yawning bernard and rose)?

sin_laden | Feb 26, 2008 6:14:29 PM | #

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I'd like to know how Nikki & Paulo made it on a list of characters to do a flashback worthy story on. Whoever's list they were on deserves a slow, painful death.

Shaggysteve | Feb 26, 2008 6:53:13 PM | #

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Well, each list on Lost has had it's own context. The first lists by the Others were to find and collect the "good" among the survivors. Ben's list at the end of Season 2 was simply to collect Jack, and the people most likely to be useful in manipulating him. And the list in Sayid's flash forward was a list of the "bad" guys as dictated by Ben, the people that Sayid was instructed to kill.

On Heroes, there was two versions of the same list, and the version depended solely on the viewpoint of the person in control of it; to Mohinder, it was people who were gifted with unique abilities, that needed to be told about it, or if they already knew, interviewed in the name of science. However, the same list in Sylar's hand was basically a menu, each person wielding a delicious entree he wanted to consume. It was only after Sylar entered the picture that Mohinder's goal with the list became not only one of finding the superpowered people, but to warn them of the danger they faced.

I think a fundamental element of all of these lists on the various shows are that they seperate people; everyone on the list, for good or evil, for safety or danger, are inherently "better" than their cohorts just by the fact of being on it. Being on the list elevates a person from obscurity into significance; the people who make the list want these people, and everyone not on the list are expendable or unworthy of attention.

I remember the scene between Goodwin and Ana Lucia. After she called him out as an Other, his demeanor changed dramatically; he was actually glad to no longer be playing the charade, and he was so smug at her exasperation at not knowing what the Others were, and her anger at having been decieved for so long. He fed on it, and in his mind, he knew he was better than her. With delight, he told her she wasn't good enough to be on the list, and thus, she didn't matter. It was almost as if he was justifying his deception, because she wasn't good enough to be wanted by the Others.

I think it's interesting that both Ben and Sylar have called the people on their lists "special", and at times displayed a sort of reverance for them.

Other Sean | Feb 26, 2008 8:02:52 PM | #

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Really? you had nothing more to talk about then lists, come on ryan, now you reaching.

Scotty B. | Feb 26, 2008 8:04:18 PM | #

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I echo the Prison Break sentiment. It features one of the most far-reaching "companies" in television.

Bryan | Feb 26, 2008 10:34:16 PM | #

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Per Doug's request (thanks for the kudos, Doug!) I'm re-posting my comments (currently at the end of "Courting Controversy") that were written Tuesday afternoon just before Ryan started this new thread ("Making a list"), so that more people (including Ryan) will see it (and perhaps respond):

Paul -- I've been assuming that since radio waves travel at the speed of light they aren't time-dialated as much as the rocket, which travels much slower (should take 15 seconds to travel the 80 miles) (or whatever it was -- the distance from the island to the freighter). And since the helicopter goes much slower than the rocket, it is time-dialated more -- three years or whatever (the difference between current time and island time). And all this time-dialation started with the plane crash (when Desmond didn't get to the button in time).

But the more I think about it the more I'm not sure of this. And after watching "Eggtown" a second time I'm developing an even greater concern, because they (or at least the writers of this episode) seem so unconcerned about realistic consistency even in simple matters that I'm worried that when we find out what's going on overall that it isn't going to make sense. To wit:

1) As others have pointed out, at the beginning of the episode Kate's lawyer tells her that she could get 20 years on each of several counts, and a life sentence for the murder. Yet when the mother decides not to testify they let Kate go virtually scott-free.

2) If I'm wrong on this point someone please (please!) correct me, but don't all prosecution witnesses (except perhaps rebuttal) go first, THEN the defense has a chance to make it's case? Thus to me it was a hokey, unrealistic contrivance by the writers that Jack would testify first, before the mother (or apparently any other prosecution witnesses).

3) Speaking of unrealitic convenient writer contrivances, that is why all of a sudden Kate was denied bail (after having been free for some time) -- so we wouldn't find out that Aaron was her kid until the end of the episode.

4) Like others, I also found the argument between Kate and Sawyer contrived (not organic). And I also have a hard time believing Jack wouldn't want to be with Kate just because of Aaron -- but I realize I have to withhold judgement on that until we find out exactly what happened. Maybe it is far more horrible that I can imagine.

Don't get me wrong -- I love LOST. I've seen every single episode. But I found this episode not as good as the first three this season, and very troubling for the aforementioned reasons.

(By the way, this is the only LOST blog I look at, since it is spoiler free. Kudos to Ryan and everybody for the high quality.)

Concerned | Feb 27, 2008 3:17:59 AM | #

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I believe it was the 1970s James Cann film "Rollerball" that first suggested (to a mass audience, anyway) that in the near future the main organization of oppression (that the individual would have to fight against to retain his soul) would be huge multi-national corporations, not governments.

Come to think of it, an even better example might be "Network", one of my all time favorite films. (As you can probably tell, I came of age in the 70s.)

Yet the distinction between big government and big corporations is not as great as many (especially pro-big-government types) think, for much of the power of huge companies is derived from government contracts (especially "defense" [read: military] companies) or special favors (for example, the use of the TV airwaves for free) -- along with the fundamental fact that a corporation is an artificial government construct (set of laws) specifically designed to benefit those who own and run corporations at the expense of those who don't. (For intance, a corporation has limited liability, a person does not.)

Often, over time, the end result is a kind of merging of big government and big corporations; this is called fascism -- and the most extreme example is what happened in Germany in the years leading up to WWII.

It is my hope that with the help of shows like "Lost" (and the aformentioned films), the people will be sufficiently enlightened that they will never let things get that bad in this country.

But I am, as my nome de plume would suggest, concerned.

P.S. On the lighter side, I have no thoughts regarding the "lists" except to say that I'm glad to see that everyone on this thread has resisted the urge to use the phrase "and checking it twice." We should all be proud of ourselves.

Concerned (still) | Feb 27, 2008 3:59:27 AM | #

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As soon as I saw Hurley was the second person to have a flash forward, I wondered if the people who ended up going to Otherville via Michael's deception in Season Two would turn out to be the Oceanic 6. I wonder if Ben's list and the list of 6 are purposefully intertwined.

Morgan | Feb 27, 2008 5:12:05 AM | #

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I was just thinking the same thing before I got to your post. I mean, I have this theory that all of Ben's passports are for different times and that he is using the time difference or whatever to go where and when he wants to we goes off the island. Therefore, he would already know who the Oceanic 6 are, which would then make sense that he'd want to take them earlier than that to try and stop everything. So (forgive me, I don't read up on Lost everyday, this is the main site I visit), but who all did Ben use Michael to get to - Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate? Was that it or was Sayid with them, too? And he didn't want Locke, right? Because he knew Locked didn't want to leave. And they tried to take Aaron from Claire a couple of times (prenatal and post, right?). I could be fuzzy on the details as I haven't rewatched any early episodes, but it just seems to me that it would be natural that the Oceanic 6 are the same ones Ben has always been after. Again, I may be fuzzy on details, but this makes sense to me. Of course, for the writers of Lost it may also be way too simple....

Morgan | Feb 27, 2008 5:40:52 AM | #

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Sorry, the previous post was in response TOo Morgan not FROM Morgan, but from me, AndreaC- I thought I wrote that... and Ben uses the passports to go where and when he wants to "when he" goes off the island... I just type too fast, I'm sure there are more errors! Sorry!

AndreaC | Feb 27, 2008 5:42:48 AM | #

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Concerned-
I also noticed that error when watching last week. I just chalked it up to being a necessary evil for the sake of the storytelling. After the whole bracelet debacle I've learned not to get to caught up in little details.

As for the lists, I am really excited to see the original Jacob list. Who was (is) on it and for what purpose. Lists are just another way to create mystery around what makes the people on them different than the others. The reveal should be pretty cool.

Corporations have replaced governments as the big evil in most genre shows because government conspiracy has been done to death. They had to find a new "big brother" and evil multi-national corporations are an easy target.

Mike in RI | Feb 27, 2008 5:42:52 AM | #

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If the Oceanic 6 are indeed those Ben has previously taken or showed an interest in, then I would think that coupled with the flash forwards would indicate that Claire has died and Aaron IS on of the Oceanic 6.

AndreaC | Feb 27, 2008 6:01:23 AM | #

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....lists are also a good way to create mystery about the commonalities between the people on them. Thanks, Mike in RI, for making me thing about the exclusion/inclusion mysteries of lists...!

I too appreciate the spoiler-free restraint of the posters on this site and the usually respectful discussion of varying theories.
Thanks folks!

djc | Feb 27, 2008 7:02:06 AM | #

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"After the whole bracelet debacle I've learned not to get to caught up in little details." -- Mike in RI

This sentence struck a sad cord in me, but not against Mike - against the writers of LOST. Once a statement like that is made, by whom I am assuming is a loyal watcher, the writers need to start watching what they say in interviews. I think this was already said by either Ryan or a poster, but the writers can't have 99 out of 100 coincidences in LOST be important and then tell us, "Oh, that last one wasn't." They trained us to watch LOST this way, and now they are telling the viewers that we overanalyze. It is frustrating.

MK46 | Feb 27, 2008 7:19:13 AM | #

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When we talk about lists, the scene that always pops into my mind is the beginning of "A Tale of Two Cities" where Ben sends Goodwin and Ethan to the various crash sites and tells them to make lists. Are they only making lists of survivors or were they also "in-tune" with the Island and were able to see who Jacob wanted (kind of like Eagle-Vision from 'Assassin's Creed')? I am thinking it is the former but the latter is much more intriguing.

I don't know what to think about the whole corporations thing. I agree that it is becoming more of the "big bad" in most shows, but I'm not so sure on it being because it is easier to write about than a government or if they are feeding off this common concern and trying to put forth a message.

Blue Sean | Feb 27, 2008 7:36:50 AM | #

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MK46-
That was my exact point when we discussed this last week. After the bracelet reveal by Cuselof I kinda got my panties in a bunch. I then realized that maybe I was looking too hard for connections. I've come to the conclusion that certain connections are there, some are not. Hopefully this will make me examine a little more to see if what I'm seeing is a connection or a red herring.

Mike in RI | Feb 27, 2008 7:37:02 AM | #

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Having seen Abbadon lay out the photographs of the four on the helicopter to Naomi, it made me think of the Season 3 DVD cover:

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/6/6b/S3DVD.jpg

Why are these photos taped up? And by whom?

I'd forgotten about this (albeit tenuous) connection until seeing the "Via Domus" cover, which prompted all this list-mania in the first place.

Blue Sean: I agree that Lost is not making an overt anti-corporate statement in its show; I just find it interesting that this tension exists in so many shows.

All you "Prison Break" fans: I've never actually seen the show, but clearly this issue exists just beyond the three shows I mentioned. Glad you see it elsewhere as well. Helps strengthen my argument.

Ryan | Feb 27, 2008 9:06:06 AM | #

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Ryan- I never thought about the outline of those pictures being tape. Maybe it's not of Jacob's doing but of some yet-to-be-introduced third-party who are investigating the Oceanic 6. I don't know if there are any plans for that but I think it might be fun to see a reporter smell something fishy with the cover story they are using and start digging. Maybe he has a big board in his office where all of their pictures are posted up (where he got the pictures could be anyone's guess). Now, of course, my idea has no basis in fact whatsoever, which gives it a better chance of being true than my other theories which ARE based in fact. Kind of like reverse-theorology or something.

Blue Sean | Feb 27, 2008 10:14:21 AM | #

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