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'Lost': The sands of time, the winds of war
Because I'm a card-carrying member of the Lost Recappers Association of America (better known as LRAA), I'm on a special email list with a direct pipeline to the producers of Lost. Sadly, it's a one-way communication system, sorta like how it is between Jacob and those he deems fit to summon and/or terrify. So most of the time I sit around and eat Cheeto's and wait for my super special LRAA emails. It's a living, people.
But, lo, patience rewarded! This just popped into my inbox at 11:01 EST.
To: LRAA
From: Darlton
Subject: Didn't I Blow Ya Mind This Time?
As Nelson from The Simpsons would say, "Ha ha!"
LOL!
Luv,
D
Very cute guys, and yes, you did blow my mind, and the collective mind of Lost fans everywhere. Gunfights! Smoke monster attacks! Crazy ancient doors! Ben in a winter parka in the middle of the Sahara! If this is what happens after unintentional hiatuses, by all means, guys, take more of them. (And yes, that's a joke. Don't you dare take away new episodes of Lost midstream, lest I start shaking uncontrollably like that other Ryan on The Office.)
The producers were not kidding around when they said the condensed Season 4 would provide more action and more information than ever before. Sweet Mary in the morning, were they right. As such, allow me to focus more thematically than narratively, as the actual plots are quickly summarized (Freighters Attack! Ben Assembles His One-Man Army! Jack Has an Upset Tummy!).
If you thought you had an understanding of the basic parameters of the overall mythology of Lost, then this episode served to slap people like me in the face with a white glove and offered to duel us an dawn with pistols from ten paces. Or, in Keamy's case, a bungalow-destroying bazooka. We thought we knew; but it turns out we knew even less than we thought.
"Rules" of Engagement
Let's start with possibly the most intriguing addition to the show's mythology: the so called "rules of the game." Ben mentioned this several times in the wake of Alex's execution, in reference to Charles Widmore. But what on freakin' earth does he mean by that? What rules is he talking about?
The implication, I think, is that Charles Widmore and Benjamin Linus had dealings previous to The Purge, and may in fact have been co-architects in the planning of it. The way that Widmore spit out the word "boy" in referring to Benjamin, coupled with his assertion that everything Benjamin had was stolen from Charles, inferred a previous relationship between the two of them. Even though Benjamin ultimately betrayed Widmore (either via the Purge or shortly after), there were still "rules" in place based on Ben's position of power: namely, his ownership of the Island.
What followed, then, was essentially a détente between the two parties, during which Widmore sought alternative methods of accessing the Island outside of Benjamin's knowledge. I can't help but wonder if all those pallet drops over the years were part of the rules established by Ben and Charles as part of their uneasy alliance. And one can only wonder if Jacob himself is a victim of the power play between these two individuals as well.
And, oh yes, apparently Smokey was part of those rules as well.
The Door of All That's Awesome
Over at Zap2It's Guide to Lost, we theorized to what the mysterious door in the promo for this week's episode could possibly lead. Some thought it led to the Temple, others to the "real world," and at least one person thought it led to a Burger King. All good guesses (except for the BK one), but it looks like leads to a place where one can activate the force known as Smokey.
Before tackling that, let's first take a moment to think about the monumental importance of Ben's bungalow. He essentially lives in the penthouse of New Otherton. Not as nice as Widmore's penthouse, to be certain, but it's nevertheless a place that suggested that bungalow, and indeed the Barracks in general, were situated in that particular place on the Island for a reason. Ben's bungalow, so near as I could tell, was fitted OVER an existing door, one that was constructed by the same civilization that built the four-toed statue. As such, one can further theorize that whatever is behind this door is fundamentally related to the smoke monster in some capacity.
What we CAN'T overtly say now is that "Ben controls the monster." I don't think it's as simple as that. He might be able to agitate/summon it, but it seemed fairly obvious to me that Ben didn't want to ride in on it to whup some mercenary butt. The fact that Ben came back covered in soot may not simply mean that he walked through a dusty corridor, but in fact had to use some tactile substance, related to the composition, in order to truly agitate it.
The door to provoke such agitation, marked as it was with those symbols, seems to insinuate that the smoke monster, in some form or another, has been on the Island for a very long time. I say "one form or another" because I don't want to rule out that its present form isn't a relatively recent phenomenon, but the show strongly indicated tonight that its basic essence dates back much, much longer that the Dharma Initiative.
That's as far as I'm willing to go right now, because the true nature of the smoke monster is a Season 6 reveal, so for now, let's revel in the fact that we saw possibly the largest incarnation yet of the smoke monster, in all its billowy, murderous glory. And that just might be enough for now.
The Hunt is On
In "Meet Kevin Johnson," we learned that Michael cannot die because the Island still has work for him to do. Turns out, this Island has work for both Benjamin and Charles as well, since Ben apparently can't kill Charles, mo matter how much he'd like to do so.
This of course begs the question, "Why not?" But before even attempting to answer that, let's look at one of the greatest "close up of eyes opening" sequences ever, as the quick cut back from commercial just kept going up...and up...and up. Ben Linus. With smoke/cold air burning off of him. In a Dharma winter parka adorned with what looks to be the first shot of the symbol for the Orchid Station. As if that wasn't crazy enough, the name Halliwax is written across the front left of the jacket. If "Orchid" and "Halliwax" don't mean anything to you, well, check this out.
Looks like Ben's been doing a little teleportation/leaping action, courtesy of this yet-to-be-fully-seen station. (Maybe via the same mechanism that sent a polar bear to Tunisia, no?) Moreover, it's unclear if he knew where he would end up, or more intriguingly, WHEN he would end up. His conversation with the front desk clerk at a local hotel seems to indicate a great deal of confusion. Now, it's always best to take everything Ben says with a grain of salt, but I don't think we can take either his shocking look at arriving in the Sahara nor he general confusion at the front desk as anything other than genuine.
Thus, we have a whole host of new questions. Why didn't he leave with the Oceanic 6? Why did he pick that time/place to arrive? Did he in fact plan either one of them? Did he leave at the same time on the Island, but arrive at a different time/place than the six of them? Given the cut on his arm, it looks as if a struggle occurred before arriving in the Sahara Desert.
And let's think about those nightmares Widmore's been having. When exactly did they start? And of what do they consist? Looks like Charles hid Penelope away soon after the events that are unfolding on the island in "real time," whatever that really means on the show anymore, as a preventative measure to avoid retribution for Alex's death. Smart guy, that Widmore.
For whatever reason, these two are prohibited from directly affecting the outcome of the drama they are producing. They both need to manipulate people, either through influence or cash, in order to produce the results they want. Widmore uses people such as Desmond to find the Island; Ben uses people such as Sayid to enact his revenge. (Among a myriad of permutations, too many to fully list here.) If you look at actions taken by both men, it suggests they themselves are relatively powerless. Benjamin needs to recruit Juliet; Widmore needs to recruit Abaddon. These are men caught in the literal grip of the Island, using those not similarly bound to affect the desire outcomes.
This is all heady and abstract stuff, but it's important, I feel. There's an actual narrative reason why Benjamin doesn't simply off Widmore in the final scene of tonight's episode. There are forces much larger than themselves at work in these flash forwards. These are the same forces that call to the Oceanic 6 as well. The Island is fundamentally damaged by the end of Season 4, and it's calling out to anyone and everyone who can hear for help. It just remains to be see exactly who inflects this wound, and how.
Eight-Sided Time
One way to think about the inability of certain people to die, the inability of them to change their fate in any meaningful way, is to look at the time discrepancies inherent between the Island and the real world. (The people on the freighter don't even seem to know the doctor's dead! They might be lying, but wouldn't it be more intriguing if, as far as they are concerned, it hasn't happened yet?) If you were to look at this show for what it is, a postmodern narrative, then such discrepancies are not only expected but perhaps dictated.
After all, Lost is a show about the inability to see things correctly through a mere linear narrative. Everything that happens is both shaped what's past and shapes what's to come, forming a life that's but a series of temporal and emotional resonances. As such, the title of the episode, "The Shape of Things to Come," is perfectly described in the Orchid logo: a rippling of waves from a central source, ever expanding. Nevertheless, these ripples have a boundary, described by the 8-walled outline of the Dharma logo. These ripples are therefore not infinite, but finite. They have a beginning as well as an end.
And this end, I think, dictates a large amount of the forced "inaction," as it were, amongst the various characters on the show. Because there's a finite level of action, there's almost a cosmic conservation of energy going on in the show, where only certain people can do certain things at certain times. And you can attribute this to fate, you can assign it a higher power, or you can go off the assumption, from a postmodern perspective, that certain people have already seen the end are seek alternative ways to amend it/affect it.
Since we're so obsessed with shapes at this point, let's look at one as I end this week's recap: the 8-spoked wheel that is the dharmacakra. I'd suggest looking long and hard at this wheel. Think about the different spokes. Think about a man named Isaac who was extremely interested in this symbol. Think about the various points on earth he mentions, and how that might provide a clue to the globe-trotting Benjamin Linus. Think about how it wasn't just enough for Jack to perform spinal surgery on Ben, but how Jack had to WANT to perform the surgery. Think about all this energy, all that action, contained on a finite number of ripples forming these series of interconnected lives.
And then, friends, you'll start to see the shape of things to come on Lost.
But I'm only one man, people. I need your help in deciphering that shape. What did you think of Ben's appearance in the desert? Smokey's appearance in New Otherton? Penelope's disappearance off the face of the earth? Leave your thoughts, theories, and comments below!
Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.
Excellent work, as always!
Awesome episode - the action never let up from start to finish. Setting a fixed timeline to end the series was a stroke of brilliance.
Two things stuck out for me this episode:
-The bizarre - dare I say funny? - offing of the lostaway extras in rapid succession as Sawyer tried to get to Claire. At this rate, it may not be that hard to get down to the Oceanic 6.
-Alex. What...the...crap. Ben has no moral high ground left to stand on, no matter how deluded he may be.
I lost count how many times I said "Holy S--t!" during this episode, the biggest one being Alex getting shot in the head. Damn Lost, you ain't playing now.
Oh, and did you notice the flashback swoosh sound when going from Ben in 2005 back to the island?
Blown away. That is the only phrase that can describe the utter shock of this episode.
If it weren't for the fact that we know something of Ben's childhood, I'd be convinced at this point that the struggle between Ben and Charles is cosmic in nature, the duel between two immortals, one on the side of Good, one on the side of Evil, except that we don't know which is on which side (or more likely, both on opposites sides of gray).
I suppose it's still possible that there is some piece of this there; perhaps in each generation a champion is chosen by each side to represent it in the battle.
Mike | Apr 24, 2008 10:10:09 PM | #After seeing the more-solid smoke monster this time around, it got me to thinking about Jewish mysticism and the idea of the Golem: maybe the reason why Ben was so filthy when he came back out the ancient door is that he has to somehow "create" Smokey by way of some magical/mystical formula/incantation/spell/recipe in order to bring the smoke monster to life. Unlike the mythical Golems, however, it doesn't look like there is a point where Ben has to rub out the symbol that renders the Golem inert (read: dead, again). Instead, maybe the monster has a limited shelf life or a definite mission that, once it's fulfilled, the creature/monster ceases to exist beyond that point. This may also be why the smoke monster that eventually took out Eko may have "known" him, which is why it seemed to meet Eko face-to-face before doing him in.
Like Brandon, I thought it was quite funny when the three Others got mowed down one after the other, almost like they were being pulled out on a rope in order to get shot. Makes me wonder how many others of the Others are still alive. Comic relief is always welcome, as long as it isn't overdone.
Sad to say, but I felt very little sadness after Alex was murdered. Perhaps it's because, in a way, she was tainted with Ben's blood, and thus her time on this planet needed to end anyway. The Spawn of Ben Linus is a scary thought in the first place (I shudder to think just how much farther out his eyes can bug, and what would cause them to do so...but I'd imagine procreation would be in the top five); seeing Alex killed just seemed proper, in a freakish way. High kudos for good acting all around in that particular scene.
It was nice to see Alan Dale speaking in his normal accent, wasn't it? He's been on about a dozen shows over the past decade, and in every one that I can recall, he speaks with an American accent. Even though his Australian twang was muted (probably from being around all them Yanks for so long), I always like hearing an actor from another country speaking in their native accent. Plus, Alan Dale is just so damned cool.
I'm not going to bother trying to figure out timelines and such anymore, because since the rules don't necessarily apply to this show, it just seems silly to waste time in an endeavor that is doomed to failure, at least where I'm concerned. After this episode, I'm beyond confused as to what the date actually is on The Island compared to what it was in Tikrit (2005, apparently), so I'll just go with the flow. I'll leave it to those who enjoy beating their heads against brick walls trying to figure it out. ;)
Anyway, great episode, and it looks to be an interesting next few weeks. Now that I'm totally mentally btrwthed, I'm going to bed to rest my tired brain.
Dark Disciple | Apr 24, 2008 10:15:30 PM | #I think Ben thought that by bluffing that the asshole (excuse my language) would shoot Alex. As much as I hate the guy who pulled the trigger, Ben was at fault, but not intentionally I think. This is where I don't like the Ben character. He thinks he's smarter than everyone and he has to keep his lies straight until he pulls the rug off from under whoever he has in his spell at the moment. The mercenary was probably told this and he knew not to fall for anything that Ben said no matter what. So in a way, Ben met his match in the lying game.
I haven't been here for the break, but I am glad LOST is back and I can share my thoughts again on the show with everyone...
Mark O. Estes | Apr 24, 2008 10:21:41 PM | #My bad, I meant that Ben thought that by bluffing that the mercenary wouldn't shoot Alex.
Mark O. Estes | Apr 24, 2008 10:25:00 PM | #All that analysis, and you miss the most important point- Ben Linus is an a-hole. The only reason Alex is dead is because he was too much of a coward to come outside. He can walk around being all vengeful and macho, but as Widmore points out, it was he who got her killed to begin with. How can one talk about this being a battle between two grays when Ben has no redeeming features I can think of? I am willing to bet a hundred bucks he offed Nadia to get Sayid to work for him.
AC | Apr 24, 2008 10:27:01 PM | #Ac, I kind of agree on the fact that Ben is a coward and that he had Nadia knocked off cause I thought the same thing when I realized that Ben was trailing Sayid.
Mark O. Estes | Apr 24, 2008 10:54:25 PM | #Given how stunned Ben looked upon "arriving" in the Sahara, I chalked up the Sayid plot as excellent improv, much like making lists of Oceanic survivors was an in-the-moment decision that had long-term implications.
Ryan | Apr 24, 2008 10:59:32 PM | #In all fairness, while I agree Ben is a jerk, without knowing the larger picture we can't say for sure just -how- selfish letting Alex die was. I mean, if there really are bigger forces at work, maybe Ben couldn't just turn himself over. Who knows?
Ben | Apr 24, 2008 11:06:57 PM | #One line I want to draw attention to. Hurley said, "Australia is the key to the whole game." Now was he just talking about RISK or was this another clue about our TV Show?
Bryan | Apr 24, 2008 11:12:35 PM | #Im back everyone!
So. do we all agree that Mr. Bernard killed the guy we found by the shore?
The way Jack asked Bernard to come to him during one of the scenes hinted this already.
James | Apr 24, 2008 11:19:35 PM | #Im back everyone!
So. do we all agree that Mr. Bernard killed the guy we found by the shore?
The way Jack asked Bernard to come to him during one of the scenes hinted this already.
James | Apr 24, 2008 11:19:45 PM | #When Ben first stepped through the door, I was certain that was how he jumped through time/space. He obviously lied to Sayid about how he got off the island, and the writers certainly timed that flash forward (or those flash backs?) to make it seem that way. What if time/space jumping sets off smokey as a side effect? What if the change in rules directly involved Ben finding Sayid in the future when he wouldn't have otherwise?
On a separate note, I am wondering where the speculation is on the doctor washing ashore. Obviously it has to do with the time difference, but if all of the mercenaries are on the island, who on the freighter would've slit a guys throat? The captain?
Morgan | Apr 24, 2008 11:26:42 PM | #Bryan-
I know! That was one of the best lines of the night! The other one being "Calm down, Chicken Little. The sky ain't fallin' just yet." God, I missed Sawyer's snarkiness over the break.
I bow at the altar of Benjamin Freakin' Linus! My god, the guy is just an enigma wrapped in a puzzle deep inside a mystery. And I love how the episode showed the full range of Ben Linus tonight - they showed him as the globe-trotting action hero and the naieve douchebag all within the same episode.
I kinda had a feeling Alex was going to die. As I said awhile back on this Lost blog, every character on this show that relies to heavily on someone else creatively is destined to die (and the rapid, random killing of the extras is an ironic metaphor for this fact). So because Karl and (as far as we know) Danielle died, Alex's story really had nowhere else to go - just like Boone and Shannon. Yes, Alex was Ben's "daughter", but a man can't be saddled with a touchy-feely family story arc when he's knee-deep in a global cold war. The downside of this, however, is that Danielle, a character that has been a part of the overarching story of Lost even before the coming of Ben Linus, was probably killed off BECAUSE of the need to kill Alex. I'm not saying she is truly dead, but if she is, this is all why.
But man, that final scene was just fantastic. So much intrique, so many questions, so few answers.
I think we should just all be glad Claire lives to see another day (but God help her, the vultures are circling), and leave it at that. There's still five more episodes, and the answers will come.
Other Sean | Apr 24, 2008 11:30:16 PM | #Oh, and there's no damn way Desmond is going to let Ben get at Penny so long as he's still alive.
Other Sean | Apr 24, 2008 11:52:40 PM | #Great episode, one of the best this season.
I don't feel cowardice was why Ben didn't give himself up. He's said all along that Widmore's crew would kill everyone on the island once they captured him, and he must have known that would include Danielle. He always thinks he can outsmart everyone and was trying to buy time, figuring Danielle was worth more to them as a hostage.
I never understood why the smoke monster was a constant presence on the island the first season, then rarely seen since. If Ben can control it, or at least summon it, then maybe he sent it to keep the losties on the beach and too scared to explore further until he was ready for them.
Jessie | Apr 25, 2008 12:30:31 AM | #Most likely Ben can't kill Widmore because the Island won't let him die. Like Michael.
But... what if he can't kill him because Widmore is actually Ben's grandfather? Who has traveled through time to the future and will eventually travel back and be the father of Ben's Mom?
George Glass | Apr 25, 2008 12:46:16 AM | #I didn't think of Bernard killing the doctor. Nice one, James. Maybe he got thrown overboard in the aftermath of Meet Kevin Johnson?
And Other Sean, Ben vs. Desmond is going to be great.
Bryan | Apr 25, 2008 1:22:55 AM | #First off, excellent recap/analysis.
Wasn't too shocked at Alex's demise, but it was a brutally effective scene. Also not surprised Ben would sacrifice the girl if necessary.
Temporal mechanics gives me a migraine, but ... The flash-forward with Ben and Sayid was technically a flash-back since we've already seen them allied together in a previous ep ... er, right? And apparently the flash-forwards are taking place in 2005?
Ben's teleportation obviously bespeaks some sort of advanced technology at work. Perhaps alien tech, although that seems a reach. Then again, we are talking about Lost ...!
Along that line, Smokey makes me think of Dr. Morbius(sp) in "Forbidden Planet" who controlled a monster with an ancient alien device. As I recall the creature came from his own id; I wonder if there's a similar relationship between Ben and Smokey.
Had to laugh at Widmore's comments on Ben's eyes.
Z-Wulf | Apr 25, 2008 2:25:22 AM | #Bernard killed the doctor? Huh?!? What?!? Jack pulled Bernard aside to verify that he knew Morse Code so they could set up their trap for Faraday and Co. Obviously something transpired on the boat and Doc Creepy bit it. The coments about the doctor being OK were either lies or due to the time difference issue.
Yeah, I know I said I was moving on last week and bit McGee in the nads for his pun-tastic style but, Ryan my man, you redeemed yourself this week ten fold. A brilliant LOST episode capped by quite a thorough, thought provoking re-cap here. Nice work and a sincere apology from yours truly. I also agree with SHARI. When Alex was executed I knew this was a show written by people who were taking no prisoners. Cold and ruthless. Man! BRYAN, gotta agree. That "Australia" line seemed to have chaser lights around it for me.
Ron H. | Apr 25, 2008 3:36:33 AM | #one question which i think must be asked in the wake of this episode is not only where ben went and what he did, but HOW LONG was he gone? was he only gone for as long as the people on the island perceived him to be gone? or was he gone for a more extended period of time? perhaps globetrotting setting up the pieces in this chess game. perhaps everything that happened off island in this episode happened while ben left everyone in the cabin...
heady stuff to be sure...
Huzzah! Called the door leading to the Smokie control room in Monday's blog comments :D
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 4:58:53 AM | #I had speculated during the break that maybe Ben was behind Libby and she was an Other. (Ben put her at the MH with Hurley for some reason, had her give the boat to Des, sent her to the Tailies to be part of their crowd). But I couldn't figure out why he'd want Des on the Island. Still not sure, but using him as a link to Penny for revenge against Widmore emerged last night as a very possible motive.
I was blown away at the fact that Sayid volunteered to be an assassin for Ben. I was thinking he was doing it under some sort of duress. Ben's self-satisfied smirk as he walked away from Sayid made me think that HE was definitely the one behind Nadia's death so he could manipulate Sayid.
But Ben's horror at Alex's being shot felt very real. "He changed the rules...." He obviously thought she was safe for some reason. Assuming he truly loved Alex in his twisted way, he must be feeling some level of guilt with the last thing she heard was him denying her, declaring her to be of no value to him. Whew.
djc | Apr 25, 2008 5:40:44 AM | #Nice call Jeff.
That line about changing the rules was the most important line for me last night. I think he is referring to the fact that this scenario has played out many times and the standing rule was that no family members would be harmed, kinda like the mafia used to be. Alex and Penelope were off limits and now the rules are changed forever.
genius episode...worth the wait
Dory | Apr 25, 2008 5:49:03 AM | #Sawyer: "Get inside!"
Bang! (Lostaway dies)
Sawyer: "Get inside!"
Bang!
Sawyer: "GET INSIDE"
Bang!
So Ben is a supervillain/hero vs Widmore superhero/villain. I will be pissed if this turns out to be some Ultrarich version of The Most Dangerous Game, but I think both are playing for higher stakes than that.
Penny better watch her ass....
I don't think I've ever been so affected by an hour of television. The smoke monster was cool and all, but Alex's death seriously messed me up. My poor wife broke down in tears. I mean, the very last thing this innocent, 16 year-old girl hears before she's executed is her father saying she means nothing to him. I loved the whole episode, but that scene and the emotion of it has really affected me. I feel kind of numb about the rest of it right now.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 6:15:54 AM | #Can't even imagine what will go down if Danielle shows up in the next few eps and wonders where her daughter is. Good. Gravy.
And I have to re-acquaint myself with the rules of "Risk" to adequately analyze that, but I think you're all right: it's a big clue, as well as a shout-out in some ways to the final ep of "Buffy" in which everyone's playing D&D.
Puff: to further the "Risk" metaphor, and to piggy back off what I wrote above, Linus and Widmore can see the whole playing field, as it were, but need to move and countermove from a distance rather than get into the action. The big question remains: which one of them controls Australia? (Another way of asking who is aligned with Oceanic 815?)
I didn't mention this in the recap since I had no real space to throw it out there, but Sawyer's general attitude towards Claire and Hugo made my heart warm. And also made me think there's sadly no way this guy's gonna be alive come the end of this season.
Ryan | Apr 25, 2008 6:25:51 AM | #
In Hurley's episode where he said he never should have gone with Locke I often wondered if he may have meant that in regard to a different situation, not going with him to New Otherton. I now wonder if his decision on last night's show to go with Locke instead of Sawyer might prove to be the real regret he suggested in that episode.
tfbuzz | Apr 25, 2008 6:28:59 AM | #Welcome back, everyone, esp Mark O.E.
I think last night also answered another question we've kicked around -- were does Ben get his money$? Widmore. Oh ho! He obviously has some pretty VIP status if the reception desk attendant at the hotel was suddenly uber respectful and inquiring what else she might do for him, sir!
And, as you pointed out, Ryan -- the possible import of the various chess pieces (people being manipulated) have to WANT to do things. e.g., Jack/Ben's surgery, Sayid/Ben's hitlist.
....maybe Locke has to play by those rules too -- Sawyer/Locke's Dad.
tfbuzz -- very interesting point about Hurley's statement! Thanks for sharing that.
djc | Apr 25, 2008 6:40:55 AM | #I wonder how Hanso and the DeGroots factor into Widmore's statement that the Island is his and always has been.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 6:44:51 AM | #tfbuzz - I was wondering the same thing last night. Maybe Hurley is like Cypher, wishing he'd taken the blue pill and just walked away from the damn rabbit hole...
All in all, a pretty awesome episode, though right now I'm not sure it was worth staying up for (I work 6am-3pm, so I'm pretty messed-up right now with only 4-5hrs of sleep). I think from now on it's gonna have to be iTunes for me, esp. next week since where I'm staying that night apparently does not have an ABC affiliate (they've got NBC, CBS, CW, FOX...even ABC Family, but no ABC. Go figure.)
Amidst all the intense action loaded into this episode, a couple plot points stood out to me that have yet to be addressed.
It is clear to me that Ben either killed Nadia or orchestrated her demise as the means by which he would recruit Sayid as an all-too-willing asassin in The War. The grief-stricken Iraqi immediately took Ben's assertion that the picture of Widmore's employee was actually taken three blocks away from the scene of her death as gospel from a man he knew was one of the great liars he'd ever encountered. Ben played the reliable 'discover what they're emotionally invested in, then use it to manipulate them' card masterfully to get Sayid to pull the trigger to 'send a message to Charles'. Remember Sayid's words to Ben in New Otherton: "The day I trust you is the day I've sold my soul"? This was that day. The snarky, ultimately self-satisfied grin on Ben's face as he walked away was the look of a man very much satisfied about having turned th etables on his one-time captor/torturer.
Ben's appearance in the desert dressed in that parka with the Orchid logo not only pointed to what has been floating around out there for some time in terms of how certain people can leave the island for distant points on the globe, but (POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT) the identity of the body in that coffin.
Why was it so vital for Ben to have John accompany him in the wake of the assault on New Otherton? Locke knew he couldn't find the cabin. That's why Hurley had to go.
Did Ben need/want Locke to cmmunicate with Jacob? Highly unlikely. No, my friends, Ben is keeping John close in order to finish what he started after leaving him for dead in the mass grave.
After all, forgiveness is clearly not one of Ben's long suits.
John has an appointment that will be kept in the Orchid Station when Ben lures him into whatever the mechanism is that permits off island travel. John will arrive back in civilization, the one eventuality he had done absolutely everything to avoid even if it meant compromising everyone else's hope of rescue. Away from the island's healing forces, he will indeed find himself back in a wheelchair. Given John's reaction to losing the use of his legs in the Dharma pit, it will be no surprise when he successfully manages to off himself. With no more 'work to do', the island will allow him to do what Michael and Jack could not.
With no family or friends, there was no one at his funeral. Kate's response to Jack as to her not attending a service ("Why would I?") was in keeping with their last encounter wen Locke banished her from New Otherton. Jack's tear? A sign of guilt brought on by recognition that Locke was right after all that "this isn't supposed to happen".
A bold move on the part of Team Darlton to kill off one of the iconic characters with two seasons left to play out, but totally in keeping with the notion that no one is truly safe as the characters exist as long as they do to serve the arc of the show.
Call this one a Mortal Locke...
Daniel | Apr 25, 2008 6:48:29 AM | #
Great episode!
I agree with the above comment that as evil as we know Ben can be, I don't think he sacrificed Alex on purpose. He clearly thought "the rules" would protect her.
I also had a crazy thought towards the end of the episode. What if Penelope is Ben's long lost friend/first love? She is physically similar enough to Juliet to warrant that comment a few weeks back. And it seems feasible that if Widmore was connected to Dharma, Penny might have spent some time on the island as a child. I know it seemed like Ben didn't know her, but the "Penelope, is it?" could have just been a reference to a name change.
I also had a thought regarding the Oceanic 6, and the post-island story they concocted. What if the part about Kate saving everyone is basically true (if not the timeline)? Because it now looks like more and more of them HAVE to get off the island in order to survive... Sun's pregnant, Jack's sick, Aaron will likely lose his mom (I suspect Claire is not as "fine" from that explosion as we were led to believe, or what would be the point of it?) So maybe when it all hits the fan, Kate assembles everyone who is sick or in danger and gets them off the island.
Allie | Apr 25, 2008 6:51:59 AM | #I still want to know how it is that Benjamin Freakin Linus went from being an angry little boy, to a father murderer to an international spy/man of intrigue/globetrotter.
Bernard? Kill someone? No way, I think whoever said Jack and Bernard got together to discuss the morse code issue was right.
Loved the way the extras got picked off...Nonnie Muss, that was hysterical!!
How could Sayid believe that lame story Ben told about leaving the island in Desmond's boat and chartering a plane from Fiji? Wouldn't Sayid wonder why it's so easy for Ben and so impossible for the people who WANT to get off the island? Ben is sooooooo manipulating Sayid in his time of grief. He may be using Sayid to get to Desmond, to get to Penny.
ZIf Sayid got off the freighter, where did Desmond end up.
Loved the exchange between Ben and Charles Widmore.
"I know you, Boy. I know who you are and what your are. I know that everything you have you stole from me"
That was brilliant. Charles is just as ruthless......it seemed like he could care less about Penny, that he was more interested in the hunt about to ensue. Widmore searches for the island while Ben searches for Penny....who will get there first?
I agree with others. I don't think Ben thought he would shoot her. He did and Ben was stunned and in shock that he did. Why else would he go out of his way to find Winderman to tell him he was going to find Penny and kill her. I kind of felt a little sorry for Ben now.
Ray | Apr 25, 2008 6:55:31 AM | #I guess I am alone in the fact that when I was watching with my husband last night and the smoke monster came out and grabbed that guy, I said in my most disappointed tone; "They jumped shark." That was some cheezy special effects there.
Interesting episode otherwise.
Think a little about Widmore. About the accent, the intonations, the timbre of his conversation with Ben.
None other, I think, than the captain of the Black Rock, Magnus Hanso. Or perhaps the perfidious first mate whose journal Widmore recently acquired.
But a hard man, a sailor and a slaver of the 19th Centure, I have little doubt.
j.norris | Apr 25, 2008 7:00:05 AM | #Seriously, Jennifer? I thought those were pretty great special effects, considering the time and budget restraints Lost always has to endure.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 7:02:49 AM | #Good episode but I fear Lost has become too trigger happy. Between the mercenaries, Alex (poor Alex), the doctor, and the three random lostaways, last night's episode was particularly bloodthirsty. I fear that in the end, it will be Jack, Kate, Sun, Desmond, Penelope, and Hurley left standing and everyone else - from the freighter folk to Rose and Bernard to Sawyer, Juliet and Locke - will be killed off.
Kevin | Apr 25, 2008 7:14:10 AM | #You know, for a brilliant guy, Faraday was pretty easily outsmarted by Jack and Bernard. How simple was it for Jack to get Daniel to confess? I hated how Charlotte just stood there looking worried that Daniel might say something wrong. What did happen to Doc Ray? Who would slit his throat? If it didn't yet happen on the freighter, is there a way for Faraday and Lewis to prevent it from happening? The writers didn't have a body wash up on shore just for sh*ts and giggles, there's more to the story than this.
I can't wait to find out more about this mysterious island and what could motivate men like Widmore and Linus to wage such a war over control of it, a war that takes the lives of innocent people but, has "rules". I, too, believe taht one of the "rules" was that family is off limits. Ben did not think anything would happen to Alex because that would be breaking the rules of the game. He thought he could bluff with Keamy and that Alex would not possibly be killed in the way that she was. Ben genuinely looked shocked and hurt and guilty over what happened to Alex.
When Ben went back to say goodbye to Alex after the Smokey attack, I seriously thought Danielle would come up behind him and whack him!!!! It's looking more and more like She might actually be dead too but, I will not go there because I don't want it to be true.
I was right about the barracks being built over a much older civilization. At least I feel like I was right, I may be wrong after all, who knows. LOL!!!
j. norris I had a similar thought. Widmore's comments about how it was all stolen from him and how it was always his made me think that he was on the black rock.
This was a great episode and I can't wait for next week. And to find out what really happened to the Dr. Maybe Syaid is taking over the ship?
Mel | Apr 25, 2008 7:27:17 AM | #i think i'm going to have to watch it again tonight before i get too deep into stuff. but first:
no way Bernard killed the Doc. and did anybody else see that he had stitches on his cheek? so he got his face busted open (can't remember if we saw that happen), fixed, and THEN somebody slashed his throat. iiiintersting...
and what does Jack probably having an ulcer have to do with the prive of Dharma boxed wine on the Island? not getting that...
mri | Apr 25, 2008 7:40:55 AM | #mri: We've seen the doc with a beat-up face on the Freighter, perhaps after an encounter with Cpt. Gault.
I think we're supposed to glean form last night that the Lostaways are experiencing the results of an action that, from the perspective of the Freighters, hasn't even happened yet. Which is awesome. Unless the freighters are once again lying. Which is less awesome.
I think the time differential and the doc washing ashore ties directly into the causality Linus and Widmore are experiencing...there are things that they cannnot do because it affects things that will happen/already have happened. They're all trapped in the shape, contained within the ripples.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Unknown.jpg
Ryan | Apr 25, 2008 7:48:26 AM | #I 100% agree, Ryan, that the Doc is both dead on the Island and alive on the freighter. The delicious thing about this is the fact that both versions of Doc Ray couldn't possibly meet in the same time due to the time differential outside the Island, so it's not a paradox!
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 7:57:16 AM | #Btw, Ryan, kudos on the excellent blog title!
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 7:59:39 AM | #ryan-
knew we'd seen the Doc before, but was questioning the new injury. the Frieghter doesn't look like Happy Fun Land (where Happy Fun Ball comes from). what changed on ths ship and when did it change? was it like, the closer they got to the Island the crazier people got?
also, so Widmore possed/possess the Island at some point in time, and Ben did not. did i interpret that right? did Ben possibly open up a bottle of btrwrth on Widmore's behind with The Purge? or is this some future possession we're talking about here.
mri | Apr 25, 2008 8:07:27 AM | #I think maybe Widmore believed that he possessed the Island when the DHARMA Initiative was first set up there, which was before Ben arrived.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 8:17:38 AM | #Yea, two ways to look at the Widmore claim of possession:
1) He had a stake in the Dharma Initiative, maybe was on the Hanso board or a major supplier to Hanso. This is mostly supported via things we no longer talk about here (Lost Experince, Via Domus, Find815, anything anyone's ever said in an interview, oh, excuse me, I have to punch myself in the face.)
2) Widmore was a former member of the Hostiles, maybe even their former leader, is an ageless as Richard, and was in fact supplanted as leader much in the way that Richard seeks to supplant Ben.
In either case, so long as Widmore doesnt refer to the Island as his precioussssssssssss, I'm fine with either scenario for the time being.
Ryan | Apr 25, 2008 8:35:33 AM | #mri-
In the previews for next week, Juliet says that Jack's problem is his appendix and he has 24 hours until it bursts.
Excellent episode and return of LOST. I can't believe they killed Alex, I thought she might be spared for a while longer and I agree with those that said Ben said those "mean" comments because he thought that was some code or way to save her but Widmore changed the rules.
As for Sayid, not 100% convinced that he is just going along with Ben. Remember, he was a torturer even though he didn't really want to be. He either feels that Ben is on the right side somehow or is killing off Widmore's crew to make Ben believe he is on Ben's side, but Sayid may just be waiting for the right time to turn the tables. Also, it seems more and more that neither Widmore or Ben are good, so Sayid may just want to get vengeance wherever he can now that Nadia is dead.
I'll try not to get too much into the time/teleportation issues because none of us really knows what's going on. But I did find it odd that Ben supposedly arrives Oct 24, 2005 and then everything else including his Widmore confrontation in England happens around this time. If that's true and Ben can teleport where he wants, he should be able to find Widmore whenever, wherever, so if Alex was killed at the end of 2004, why would he wait nearly a year to tell him he was going after Penny? Unless in the real world it is around September/October 2005 when Alex is killed on the island. However, the fact that Ben lies to Sayid about how he left the island means none of the Oceanic 6 made it off through unusual means apparently. Neither did Michael, so if there are other ways off the island, why can't Widmore find it? Plus, both Michael with Tom and Sayid with Ben have asked how can you or how did you leave the island, yet Michael, Walt, and at least the Oceanic 6 did make it off, so why do they seem so surprised or even ask this question in the first place?
Also, in my opinion it seemed as though time on the island was ahead of time outside the island, evidenced by it being Christmas Eve on the freighter which seemed about a week behind where the island time should be. Now add the possibility of the dead doctor showing up in the future time on the island but being alive in the past on the freighter makes this even more possible. But then that discredits that the Oceanic 6 get rescued and arrive back in the real world at a future date, which I would think would have to be the case since how else would anyone buy that Kate had Aaron, at this point Oceanic 815 has only been missing for 3-4 months. Yet apparently Michael and Walt did get rescued in November 2004 which coincided with island time. So we have evidence of the island being in the past vs real world, the future vs real world, and right in sync with the real world. I am so LOST!??? But I love it. Anyway, sorry for rambling, I said I'd try not to get into the whole time issue but it's so complex and it gets me thinking that I can't help myself.
I too am wondering who will be left alive, it's not looking too promising, especially with 2 more seasons after this one. It's going to be a wild rest of this season, and I'm so happy we are getting a 2 hour finale!!
Craig M | Apr 25, 2008 8:42:35 AM | #Ryan, going with your optin #1, I think Widmore is responsible for all the Island's infrastructure. His company built all those hatches, I think.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 9:03:04 AM | #I agree with everyone who has said that Ben thought the rules of the game would prevent Alex from being killed. His vow to kill Penny confirms that.
HOWEVER, if that is so, then why would he not say, "Leave her alone; she is my daughter," rather than denying that she was his daughter? That part makes no sense to me.
Frank | Apr 25, 2008 9:12:48 AM | #After sleeping on it the only thing I sort of have a problem with the episode is the fact that Widmore used all of these resources to capture Ben, and yet Ben was able to waltz into Widmore's penthouse so casually.
Anyway, not sure if this has been said yet or not, but maybe all of the assassinations Sayid has been doing for Ben is with the ultimate goal of finding Penelope.
Lastly, how trippy would it be if we ever get a Charles Widmore flashback?
Jason | Apr 25, 2008 9:14:54 AM | #Awesome ep! I agree pretty much with what everyone has mentioned (except that Bernard killed the good Doc). This is a little off subject but the scene of Ben chasing the bald guy in Irak totally reminded me of Star Wars Ep4. The part Luke & Obi-Wan walking thru the Mois Eisley with the Stormtroppers patrolling the streets. Except this time its Ben and the bald guys running thru the streets with our US Soldiers patrolling the streets. Well the producers are fans of Star Wars so maybe it was done on purpose.
Cotti | Apr 25, 2008 9:15:51 AM | #To me, the funniest part of the extras getting picked off was that, immediately after this display of expert marksmanship, Sawyer runs around like Han Solo avoiding Empire stormtroopers, bullets flying everywhere, and nary a scratch! All that was missing were the white hats and the black hats!
Mike | Apr 25, 2008 9:18:07 AM | #Daniel, I usually avoid speculation on what is to come, because my feeble mind cannot handle the intricacies, but your Locke-in-the-coffin scenario really rings true, right down to the reason Kate turned her back on him.
My only problem is that it assumes the island has no more work for Locke to do. I'm not ready to buy that yet.
Jimmy | Apr 25, 2008 9:22:23 AM | #Not going to lie to you, this episode rocked.
I am devestated that Alex was killed-off. But the point of her death sends chills down my spine. It seems clear to me that Ben was convinced that Alex was never intended to die. Alex was gifted or special or somehow in play of "the rules" and prohibited from death. But when she died the game changed (for Ben and for Widmore).
Ben called on the Monster. I don't think this means he can control it because everytime we see the Monster it looks, acts, sounds and is different. This time it was ruthless, unstoppable terror. It took out the intruders with no mercy but tons of emotion. It decides who lives and who dies, just like the island. Ben may not control the monster but he can definately influence it, some how and in some way.
Moving on, no one has mentioned the triangle of power forming between Hurley, Locke and Ben aka the Cabin kids. Ben went out of his way to protect Hurley and Locke because they can commune with Jacob and this is a far cry from his earlier actions (shooting Locke). What does this mean?
I bring up Locke's shooting for a reason. Because it ties in everything I've said so far to the awesome, overarching mythology of this show. And that is the island's bias towards who dies and who lives. I don't believe for a second that Danielle is dead because she's survived all this time. Ben can't die not because of his manipulations but because of the Island's power. Widmore can't be killed) by Ben because of some unknown reason. But death isn't unavoidable or even unescapable for any of these folks. Danielle may very much be dead. Ben could have very well died because of his tumor and Widmore, well we don't know anything about him anyway. The Island seems to have the power to sustain but it is also at risk of invasion. And it seems trapped in the middle of a huge war. What is unclear is if the Island is the prize, the battleground, the weapon or one of the participants.
LOSTFan | Apr 25, 2008 9:24:52 AM | #yes, know its his appendix, but want to know the meta behind it...Lost gave a dude a spinal tumor and then had a plane crash with a spinal surgeon on board. so...who's going to operate on the surgeon? or is that why he's one of the O6 b/c must get off the Island for the surgery? and the irony just now struck me: there's a Dr who could feasibly operate on jack, but on the Island he's dead, and on the Freighter he's alive. niiiiiice. maybe that's the endgame that the Island is looking for: kick the O6 off, and call them back so that knowledge of the Island becomes public domain and can't be exploited by Widmore (a la The Saint).
some people may say Ben holds the cards, some may say Widmore, but i say that the only reason they're even at the table is b/c ths Island wants them there.
mri | Apr 25, 2008 9:31:10 AM | #mri, I agree that the Island holds all the cards in this game.
I also really like your theory that because we know Dr. Ray is going to die, there's a rush to get Jack to the freighter to save his life before it's too late!
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 9:44:35 AM | #I disagree with those who think Ben had Nadia murdered. He seemed fairly surprised and unprepared to show in the Sahara. When he saw the TV with the coverage of Nadia's murder, he immediately schemed how to take advantage of it. It is quite possible (even likely) that she was not killed by Widmore's man, but all he needed was to convince Sayid this was true, which didn't take much.
Mike | Apr 25, 2008 9:54:53 AM | #I'll throw a small question/proposition out there. Charles has hidden Penelope, yes? Penelope is looking for Desmond, somewhat desperately, yes? The time outside the island moves faster than the time ON the island. Here's what I'm getting at: Charles had a greater quantity of time to hide Penny, than Benjamin had to react to the death of his daughter. SO, has Charles imprisoned his daughter, who now searches for Desmond to find her? OR, has the caught on to her father's design for Desmond and seeks to warn him / go against Poppa-san?
Mick Ignus | Apr 25, 2008 9:59:30 AM | #Awesome episode all around. More btrwrthyness than ever before. I'm starting to think everything that happens off the island is better than the stuff happening on the island. Could this be the big change for next season? Telling the story off the island with flashbacks to the island? (Just as long as it doesn't turn into The Nine, it'll be alright.)
The whole island not letting people die thing brings even more questions about who's in the coffin. We've seen from Michael, Jack, Widmore, that the island keeps people alive who still have work to do. So, if the person in the coffin is one of the islanders, they must have finished their job. Does this lead to Locke, or maybe Ben? If it is Ben, that would explain why nobody would show up (who knows about him outside of the island?).
Also, I've said before that I think Penny is Annie. Widmore having been on the island before might make this idea stronger. If she does turn out to be Annie, won't that be a nice little surprise when Ben comes to kill her??
A-Rob | Apr 25, 2008 10:07:54 AM | #mri, I think it'll be Juliet who operates on Dr. Jack. She is a gifted fertility doctor so, she knows what to do for a simple appendix rupture, I hope. Your theory on Doc Ray being alive on the freighter and somehow ultimately performing Jack's surgery is very intriguing, though.
I am confused too about Locke and Hurley being so imprtant to Ben all of a sudden. Ben tried to kill Locke because Locke was able to hear Jacob, which meant that Locke was special to Jacob in the way that Ben had been. Hurley only saw the amazing, disappearing cabin by mistake and probably had no idea it was Jacob's cabin because, at the time, Hurley didn't know about Jacob. Ok, so, Jacob and his cabin magically appear to Hurley and now Hurley is the key to finding his cabin again? So, how come Ben was leading the way?
Why does Ben, a man who seemingly always has a plan, need to go talk to Jacob to find out what to do next? It makes Jacob all the more mysterious and powerful if the great & powerful Wizard of Oz (Ben) can't make a move without him.
Hi. Does anyone have any ideas on that black rectangular object Ben was holding in the Desert when the men frisked him. He also had it in his hand again when he was in the elevator going to see Widmore. Maybe this helps him jump time/space.
MaggieZ | Apr 25, 2008 10:14:33 AM | #It actually looked like more of self-defense device to me. If Ben got into a physical conflic with someone, he could whip that thing out and kick some ass.
Chris | Apr 25, 2008 10:16:17 AM | #One thing no one has mentioned yet, and neither have you Ryan, is how did Widmore know about the death of Ben's daughter? (He told Ben in his bedroom that he was responsible for her death implying he knew how everything went down). The only thing I can think of is that the guy who shot her (mercenery man) somehow survives and informs Widmore of everything.
Jerry | Apr 25, 2008 10:17:47 AM | #Here's what I loved about the whole recruitment of Hurley last night: Ben picked up on Hurley's knowledge of Jacob in "Confirmed Dead," and rather than play his hand then, waited for the opportune moment to exploit it. Just absolutely loved that patience.
Ryan | Apr 25, 2008 10:21:12 AM | #That thing that ben had was a collapsable baton. It probably has something to do with not being able to carry metal on your body when you're being transported. It's made of a light weight but durable hard plastic that can pass through metal detectors. Just whip it out and kick some ace. I think he used it once before last season in the cage with Sawyer to knock him out and put the alleged pacemaker in him.
Mike in RI | Apr 25, 2008 10:29:13 AM | #a couple of thoughts...
-- did everyone catch the time jumping mechanism ben clasped in tunisia and in england? at first i thought it was a batton or a gun, but clearly was a stick with some sort of button, perhaps tied to the orchid station?
-- ben definitely had nadia offed and was playing sayid to transform him into his own personal assassin.
-- cant wait to see what perhaps may be one of the final episodes of the season or maybe series... a faceoff between desmond, sayid, ben and penny. im guessing that may be ben and chucks last bit of work to do...
-- australia -- i don't think we can rule out christian shepard and where he fits into this puzzle. when hurley said this, for me, it pointed directly to the start of 815 and perhaps the last moves by christian shepard assembling his own "army" (after all, we have seen hed had his hand in putting people on that plane and been in too many paths for coincidence).
mel-c | Apr 25, 2008 11:01:10 AM | #Great episode, lots of info and a crazy body count. I'm surprised people aren't having a bigger reaction to the reveal of Nadia's death, that's a really tragic twist for Sayid's story.
I think Nadia was killed by Widmore's people and not Ben. Gut feeling more than logic, but Ben's reactions seem to support that.
I don't see how Penny could possibly be Annie. She changes her name and picks up an accent? And why would she be on the island but presumably away from her dad? Why would she have never mentioned to Des that she spent most of her childhood on an island? I don't see how it makes sense, seems that people are desperate for Annie to turn out to be one of the other characters we have met.
milo | Apr 25, 2008 11:01:11 AM | #mel-c, that "device" was Ben's collapsable baton. What do you think he struck the Bedouin with?
milo, I agree, Penny and Annie are two different people. Annie is no one currently living on the Island.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 11:23:28 AM | #jeff --
i thought he used the gun the guy was carrying to shoot the other guy and then pistol whip the 2nd with.. ill clearly have to watch again. i was probably still distracted from the whole time warp dance.
No worries, mel. The first Bedouin gets off his horse and frisks ben, finding the baton in his pocket. Ben slowly pulls it out, pretending it's nothing and in a flash, fully extends it, smacks the guy with it, grabs his gun and fires at the second Bedouin on the horse, killing him.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 11:40:29 AM | #Chris-
i have no doubt that Juliet could do it, but where? on the beach? b/c New Otherton is out of the picture and what with people getting blowed up and shot all over the place, hauling Jack anywhere more than onto a chopper and onto the freighter doesn't seem possible.
i just want a live Dr./dead Dr. thing to come about. that would be bada$$. particularly if it turns out that Jack has to kill him or something twisted like that.
mri | Apr 25, 2008 11:45:28 AM | #Have you guys listened to the new Audio Podcast? Some tantalizing stuff in there that directly relates to the discussion we're having!
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 11:48:39 AM | #I thought the smoke effects were fine. And even if they weren't, that's not what "jump the shark" means - it means doing a crazy, out of character stunt to desperately try and boost ratings.
milo | Apr 25, 2008 12:01:00 PM | #Hear hear! Now, if Smokie turned into a smoke-Boeing 777 and all the survivors climbed onboard and flew home, escorted by Ezra James Sharkington, Claire's birds, Jacob in a cape and the Hurley Bird, that would be Lost Jumping the Shark.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 12:05:13 PM | #BTW, one of the items covered in the Podcast: Harper appearing to Juliet in the jungle really is just Harper and neither an apparition nor the smoke monster.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 12:10:26 PM | #Jeff. Did they really say that? That's hard for me to believe. So the rain starts, the whispers are heard, and then the real Harper pops out and then disappers. Wow.
Mike in RI | Apr 25, 2008 12:12:52 PM | #I've always contested that it was just Harper and nothing else. The whispers have often heralded the approach of the Others. Why should Harper be any different?
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 12:20:01 PM | #That's true. The scene just seemed way too spooky for it just to be this broad we've never seen before that episode.
Mike in RI | Apr 25, 2008 12:22:17 PM | #They better have a good reason for the whispers. It would be beyond lame if the whispers have no explanation but just happenfor the sake of being "spooky".
milo | Apr 25, 2008 12:27:38 PM | #I think answer to the What are the Whispers question is up there with What is the Island and What is the Smoke monster. It's an endgame reveal.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 12:31:50 PM | #mri,
Maybe Juliet takes Jack to one of the Dharma medical stations to perform the surgery. I'm not sure about the proximity of the medical station to the Dharma compound but, that may be a possibility. Either that, or Juliet and Kate trek to the medical station together to get the supplies they need for Juliet to fix up Jack.
So sounds like they comfirmed in a roundabout way my psychic projection (which to me is not an apparition):
http://blog.zap2it.com/lost/2008/03/lost-a-lot-on-t.html
An apparition implies a ghostly spirit to me. Since she's alive, it's not an apparition.
I'll listen to the podcast later and see/hear for myself.
Ryan | Apr 25, 2008 12:33:29 PM | #I loved Sawyer-as-hero last night, fighting for Claire and Hurley. It was great to see that side of him.
Smokey was much cheesier while attacking Eko.
Like others, I did NOT expect Sayid to choose to work for Ben. Obviously it was a con: get the conned to think it was their own idea. But who's conning who? Is Sayid so distraught that his internal polygraph has turned off? It's hard to believe he would take anything Ben says at face value. Not sure what's going on there, but I certainly hope Sayid's the one in control.
Just a side note: Sayid said he'd been looking for Nadia for eight years . . . conveniently forgetting the blip in time when he told Shannon he loved her and would NEVER leave her. Hmm. Are the writers choosing to forget that? Or just Sayid?
do i even throw out there that sometimes a whisper is just a whisper? which would be awful because the whispers are not just heard by us loyal Lost-aholics playing the at home game. other folks react to them as well, so maybe its a side-effect of "moving rapidly through space and time" thing (since people get undies in a bundle about the whole teleportation thing).
mri | Apr 25, 2008 12:35:10 PM | #What does BTRWTH stand for, and what does it mean?
I don't think Danielle is dead.
Question | Apr 25, 2008 12:40:54 PM | #Ryan, I'm pretty sure it was just Harper walking up to Juliet. I think she made the trek from the Temple, rather than psychically broadcasting herself.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 12:45:17 PM | #Chris-
definite possibilty. i just want some dakr and twisty. :-)
BTRWRTH = Mrs. Butterworth, and it can mean anything from getting your hiney kicked (like Smokey totally btrwrthed the Freighters) to something totally cool (Ben let Smokey out to btrwrth the Freighters and that was really btrwrthy).
if you really want to know more, go check the Lost guide out and read all bajillion comments. that's the really short version though.
mri | Apr 25, 2008 12:47:14 PM | #Jeff-
did she bring along her chorus of whisperers? b/c that sound effect is not for our benefit alone.
mri | Apr 25, 2008 12:48:35 PM | #uhmmmmm.....yes...?
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 1:13:25 PM | #I also have a how sad:
Claire's "Charlie?"
and a how funny:
Miles ringing the doorbell
I loved the use of the doorbell and when Miles said that he would stay with the Losties instead of going off to find the Mercs. Any possibility that Claire saw Charlie? That would be a cool twist.
Tim | Apr 25, 2008 1:19:24 PM | #I thought the "Charlie" was a really nice, sad touch.
Alex's execution completely broke my heart, though.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 1:19:29 PM | #Ben is fast becoming one of my fav chraters, even tough I hate his him....the actor is great and doesnt get enough recognition.
Emmy looking at u!
Jp313131 | Apr 25, 2008 1:53:00 PM | #Apparently Smokey didn't get Keamy since he in the previews for next week.
Ryan's typical though provoking blog raised once again a question that's puzzled me for a while: The pallet drops of food and supplies. If Widmore doesn't know where the island is, who is delivering the supplies? Someone knows, and the Dharma logos on everything suggest Ben and the Others are pretending to be the Institute.
The quick deaths of the "lostaways" at the barracks once again proves that there are all sorts of 815 survivors we've never seen. They're always there in the background, milling about the beach, but they never become "characters" in the story.
Alex's death was a surprise. But she was starting to look too much like Amy Winehouse for her own good.
William Robinson | Apr 25, 2008 2:51:22 PM | #@William Robinson, re: "too much like Amy Winehouse"
OUCH! Now that's what I call being btrwthed! Poor Alex. :P
Dark Disciple | Apr 25, 2008 2:56:13 PM | #Double ouch!!!
First Shannon, then Libby, now Alex.
If Claire and Juliet die, then it's just cruel and sad that all the attractive woman in LOST are being off'd.
RT | Apr 25, 2008 3:10:43 PM | #"women"... sorry.
Also, add Naomi and Regina to the list :(
It seems C&L seem to have it out for the gals on this show.
RT | Apr 25, 2008 3:17:16 PM | #So. Let me predict what happens in the past using what we do know about the future.
I like how everything is still blurry as to how Hurley gets off the island when he is away with the other 5.
We all know that Claire and Sawyer makes it to the beach because how is Aaron gonna be saved if he was stuck in the forrest. OR. Maybe something happens to Claire and Sawyer and Hurley just so happens to stumble upon them dead and Hurley takes Aaron back to the beach.
With this said, where does Locke fall into place?
James | Apr 25, 2008 3:22:26 PM | #wow, rockin' episode, and great to "see" everyone again!
i thought i had heard the producers said that the show's focus will shift with the off-island flash-forward's becoming the present focus, and on-island action becoming the "flashbacks." thus, island action turning into flashback's. maybe they're already easing into this new perspective. anybody?
Daniel, your Locke theories seem a good fit to the facts (so far as presented). and tfbuzz, thanks for your insight as to Hurley's comment, i love all the different ways to see things.
gosh so many things...i also had a Star Wars vibe watching Ben land in the desert with his light "sabre" (whatever it is?) maybe ben's "travel" is not so exact a science.
yeah, why would Sayid believe Ben so easily? who would benefit from Nadia's death? i also found that very sad for Sayid.
loved Sawyer last night, but then i again i almost always love Sawyer. for a con man, he sure is a softie. gotta love him.
like many of you, i didn't think Ben expected Alex to be killed, i think he had no intention of it happening and he did seem genuinely shocked when it went down like that.
i don't think Danielle is dead.
ding-dong, it's Miles? wtf?
it's great to be back....
BEST EPISODE EVER!!!
The last 5 minutes almost made me wet myself. They almost could have used this episode for a season finale. It just set so much up for the rest of the season and the series.
I don't believe Ben completely controls Smokey, he can just conjure or summon it.
Ben and Locke need Hurley because Jacob for one reason or another has chosen Hurley. I believe it was Ben last year that said you can not just visit Jacob, you must be summoned by him.
If the producers say that Harper was just Harper than thats probably it. However, that doesn't rule out that she was transported there. She appeared than disappeared rather quickly.
I would like it if Widmore was from the Black Rock, but more realistically he was someone behind the curtain with Dharma.
I liked the killing of the redshirts during the attack. Was one of them Scott or Steve?
Awesome episode in general. We definitely have much to discuss here.
Until then...
Shaggysteve | Apr 25, 2008 4:14:13 PM | #So, Ben is intent on killing Penny, who happens to be Desmond's constant. Any guesses on what might happen to Desmond if Ben manages to accomplish the deed? And perhaps if Penny is killed, Desmond becomes unstuck in time again to try to rescue her .
edonline | Apr 25, 2008 5:33:26 PM | #If Penny is killed, my heart and soul will die.
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 5:59:35 PM | #If they kill off Penny, I will absolutely have to STOP watching the show.
Okay... okay... I'll stop watching ONLY if they promise plenty of flashbacks/forwards with Penny to hopefully confirm she and Desmond do eventually end up back together.
Ah, who am I kidding. I'm hooked like a junkie. There's no way I'll stop watching.
Douglas | Apr 25, 2008 6:08:33 PM | #You know now Sayid could be the one Ben will ask to kill Penelope (talk about a dilemma)
Jeff | Apr 25, 2008 8:40:43 PM | #I, too, felt numb when Alex was killed. I thought it was low. But I have to admit, I LOVE what it sets up in the story now, as far as the stakes being raised. Although, if Penny dies, I am seriously going to mess some sh*t up lol.
I'm on the fence over whether I think Danielle is dead or not, but to be honest, after what happened to Alex, I kind of hope that she is. I don't want to see her have to get that news. Although... that could be interesting, Danielle as motivated to get revenge on Ben as Ben is to get revenge on Charles Widmore.
Oh my God. Sawyer. Risking his life to save Claire. Trying in vain to keep the 'extras' from being shot (which, btw, it seems like I'm just about the only person who didn't find that scene humorous). But forget all that. When Sawyer told Locke, "You harm so much as one hair on [Hurley's] curly little head, I'll kill you", I lost it. Such a great moment.
Speaking of great moments, the scene between Ben and Charles Widmore was unbelievable. So incredibly well-written, and a testament to how "Lost"'s writers are still taking the show into directions you never saw coming (at least I didn't).
I'll tell you what I *didn't* like: the way they strung the opening credits out along the entire first act and then, finally, put the "Directed by Jack Bender" credit on-screen during the shot of Claire's house engulfed in flames. It was such a transparent punctuation mark... like them trying to say, "So what did you think of THAT?". This is "Lost"; they don't need to do that. Honestly, I think it really took away from the gravity of the moment (even though it turned out Claire wasn't dead anyway).
Kiffa | Apr 25, 2008 10:18:18 PM | #I want to know what sayid meant by saying 'he was looking for nadia for eight years'. If he was looking for her since the end of the first iraq war, it is longer than eight years, since it is 2005. That would mean he would have been looking for her since 1997. Leads to the possiblity of them leaving the island in the year 1997.
joe | Apr 25, 2008 11:55:55 PM | #I just watched this episode (and did I have a Waaalting hard time getting it), and it was totally worth the wait.
The showdown between the two leaders of the factions at war in the end of the ep. was great, though a bit anti - climatic, because it seemed they couldn't really anything to each other.
Sawyer was also great, showing his soft side when he tried to protect Claire, and Hurley. That "If you touch his curly hair I'll kill you" was just priceless. At least now, with Miles in the forest and Ben, Locke and Hurley off to find Jacob, it seems we might finally see Miles encountering the whispers and learn a bit about Smokey.
Also, after this long hiatus, it's nice to see some blog favourites return. Nice to have you back guys.
sin laden | Apr 26, 2008 4:00:41 AM | #Ohh, I forgot to say that I was totally shattered to see my hope of time differences go up in smoke, thans to Ben's question at the hotel, although another intriguing comment by Faraday still left me hanging (when Jack asked him when he had last seen the doctor, he answered "when is kind of a relative term").
Charlote was totally worthless on this ep. She just stood there and watched Faraday burying himself over and over again.
sin laden | Apr 26, 2008 4:09:40 AM | #While I was watching the show, I had a new idea about the Smoke Monster. I felt that Ben went back in time and "changed the future". When he stepped out of that back room and returned to the island, the Smoke Monster had to "clean up" the differences.
Just food for thought
Rocket | Apr 26, 2008 6:44:50 AM | #Quick question. If Ben can control or summon the Smoke Monster, it would make sense for it to kill the pilot, since the pilot knew where he was when the island "appeared" on the radar and they didn't want to take the chance that if he survived he would be able to tell where it was. but why kill EKO?
Jason | Apr 26, 2008 1:23:26 PM | #I'm still pissed they killed Rousseau.
Cat | Apr 26, 2008 6:10:52 PM | #HOWEVER, if that is so, then why would he not say, "Leave her alone; she is my daughter," rather than denying that she was his daughter? That part makes no sense to me.
Frank, so true. WTF?
Is this the first confirmation we've had of Ben's controlling his time travel?
Would someone please use the baton on Charlotte? She gets up my nose.
vajayjay | Apr 27, 2008 3:10:53 PM | #Sayid found Nadia?? I thought the Iraq's would have found their escapee and killed her and her family long ago. Naaah. He's playing Ben. Setting him up. He knew Ben was following him. He knew Ben was there, that's why he looked up at the camera. (which by the way, appeared out of a magic knapsack. It wasn't with him when he landed in the desert, and I didn't see a camera shop :|)He must be letting Ben think he can be manipulated and become part of Ben's recruit team. He's gotta really be working for Widmore - keeping an eye on Ben's moves. Keep your enemies close. Afterall, after the tearfull chat Des had with Penny on the boat-in front of Sayid, Sayid and his soft spot for woman and love, he is probably Des/Widmores best buddy now. Sayid is back home, so must Des be. Back in Penny's arms, hidin away somewhere Ben would never find them. Sayid now their long distant bodyquard. I can almost hear Whitney Houston singing right now!
So everyone knows where the island is now,it was takin from Widmore by Ben, as assumed by the converstation in Wid's bedroom. Why can't Widmore just take it back? Why does he need Ben captured and not dead? If the "rules" can be changed and killing family ties is okay, then why not Ben? Did the island's magical and mysterious powers crown Ben the King and Widmore has to take it back by some ancient ritual?
Aaaah, I give up. But love being Lost.
They killed Eko because the actor wanted off the series - not major plot point or plan by the producers.
ac | Apr 27, 2008 9:54:11 PM | #They killed Eko because the actor wanted off the series - not major plot point or plan by the producers.
ac | Apr 27, 2008 9:54:21 PM | #Zap2it TV Talk
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