'Lost': One or the "Other"

March 06, 08:31 PM

So, kids, do you like Lost? More importantly, do you like answers on Lost? If you answered yes to both, then you most certainly enjoyed the heck out of tonight's episode, "The Other Woman." Not only did the show explicitly answer some big questions, but it also provided some vital clues that provided hints that explain both past as well as future events. And if that wasn't enough for you, well, there was approximately eleven minutes in which Elizabeth Mitchell's cleavage was on full display. So, haters, honestly, you've got no ammo this week.

I want to look at the title of the episode, because its reference is dual: one obvious, one not so obvious. The obvious meaning applies to Juliet, incredibly un-secret lover to one Goodwin, last seen running off to get information from the tail section. But the not so obvious reference? It has to be Annie, Ben's childhood sweetheart and, if Goodwin's wife/Others' therapist Harper is to be believed, looks a whole lot like Juliet herself.

Now, did we explicitly learn that Annie is the other woman? No, but if you were a betting man, this is as sure a bet as you could make. More over, the fact that Juliet bears a resemblance to Annie reveals a crucial piece of the narrative heretofore unknown: Annie survived the Purge. It was unclear until tonight whether or not this was true. Now, we've seen Annie as a child on the show, and she didn't really resemble Juliet in any way, shape, or form. Thus, one can argue that Annie survived the purge. The question is: where the heck is she?

I've actually tackled this topic before. More than once, actually. I won't make you read all the back story right now unless you absolutely want to, but here's the gist: Ben's entire "Operation Make Babies" stems from an incident involving Annie and pregnancy. The specifics are yet unclear, but something catastrophic happened, and everything Ben does from that point forth is in service of either rectifying or undoing this horrendous act.

Understanding this, I believe, is the key to understanding Ben's obsession with Juliet, something only hinted at before but absolutely, 100% on display in tonight's episode. In fact, it was SO in your face as to seem horrendously out of character for Ben. It was like the worst pairing that the website eDharmany ever produced. (Who knew mass genocide was one of the twenty-nine dimensions of compatibility?) It nearly took me out of a lot of scenes, to the point where, for a split second, I actually sighed out loud when he screamed, "You're mine!" to Juliet over Goodwin's corpse. But then five things happened, and it all made sense.

Ben stopped. Ben stared. Ben blinked. Ben took a breath. Ben averted his eyes.

And after that, I realized that when he screamed, "You're mine!" to Juliet, he wasn't actually screaming at her. He was screaming at the other woman: Annie. Whatever deal he cut with the Hostiles came with the caveat that Annie survive the Purge; and with Annie now mysteriously gone, his obsession turned away from the Island, and towards his love, and from that moment on, everything started to slowly unravel for Ben.

But speaking of the Purge: looks like we now know where Ben obtained the lethal gas used during the assault on the Dharma Initiative, eh? We found ourselves a new Dharma location tonight, a facility (not a station) called The Tempest. Its purpose? To power the various stations throughout the island, through a combustible mixture of some of the most lethal airborne toxins known to man. That's one freakin' inconvenient truth, people. I'm not sure what the antithesis of "green energy" is, but this has to come close, right?

In any case, what we're learning is that the four Chopperettes all have missions, but these missions are multifaceted indeed, all designed to neutralize Benjamin Linus and his 784 backup plans. Charlotte and Daniel left the beach with a map, a map that directly pointed towards the Tempest. This facet of the mission consisted of neutralizing the toxins in order to prevent The Purge II: Electric Boogaloo.

And who provided this map? Who could have such knowledge of the original Dharma Initiative schematics, knowledge of Island topography, and indeed, knowledge of the Island's location itself? Well, I don't wanna say I told you so, but hey, I told you so. Last year, even. Elliot Reed, take it away!

(Sorry about the gloating. I'm hardly ever this spot on, so I take what little solace I can, when I can. Plus, I miss Scrubs, so linking that clip feels darn good, too.)

Charles Widmore. Corporate giant. Aloof father. Ledger collector. Heart breaker. Dream maker. Love taker. (Don't you mess around with Charles.) And, now we know for sure, the man responsible for those on the freighter. His purpose? Ben summed it up nicely in what I marked down in my notes as the "Locke=Mold Monologue." Ben argued that if 5,000 went to visit a house that developed mold in the shape of the Virgin Mary, imagine the crowds that would flock to see a crippled man healed by an Island. As if Locke wasn't having a difficult time of it as it were in Season 4 already, he's now the equivalent of mold.

And Locke: if you're reading (and I know you're not, because you're fictional, but bear with me), here's my advice: stay away from any edifice built by the Dharma Initiative. In Season 1, you were a madman of the jungle, a total bad mutha. In Season 2, you spent your time in the Swan, lost your mojo, and turned into a joke. In Season 3, you nearly exploded, found jungle religion again, earned the trust/hope of Jacob, and remembered how to throw a knife from fifty feet. And now, in Season 4, you're cooking the former lab experiments of the Orchid Station in a bungalow, and wondering why you're such a tool. Just go all Survivorman again and I'm sure everything will work out just fine.

Because look, Locke, you've already let Ben out of the basement, given him 300 thread count sheets, and allowed him to get one step closer to winning the war, just as Juliet predicts at the end of the episode. There's no way you could know this, Locke, but that Red Sox tape? It wasn't used all that long ago. Maybe two weeks or so. Which means in the interim, Ben left the Island, went all Candid Camera on Widmore, and then returned to the Island without anybody noticing. And now you're OK with this man partnering up with Claire during "Game Night at the Barracks"?

It's not like Ben needs that much freedom to work his mojo, but it can't help to let him roam about the Barracks. One of the more controversial topics of this week's episode will center around the appearance of Harper to Juliet (and Jack) at the episode's outset. Harper's appearance was preceded and followed by the infamous whispers, which leads one to be skeptical of Harper's identity. But by episode's end, I think we're supposed to be believe that Harper/notHarper was in fact communicating a direct order from Ben. Juliet realizes, once the airborne threat has been contained, that she once again followed orders that would ultimately benefit Ben and Ben alone. As such, the true nature of maybeHarper is less important than the fact that Ben could send it Juliet's way. Just as Ben exploited Juliet's emotions about Goodwin over his dead body, he uses her memories of his working at the Tempest in his favor to manipulate her to do his dirty work.

The question remains, then, "How?" But that ties into elements (the whispers, what it means to have communion with the Island) that really haven't been explored yet. But I think we are ABSOLUTELY supposed to wonder how Ben could send Harper Juliet's way, and we are ABSOLUTELY supposed to wonder why Jacob's cabin is on tour, and we are ABSOLUTLEY supposed to wonder, along with Locke, why Jacob (and by extension, the Island) has been relatively quiet since the appearance of Walt. Why the whispers produced Jacob for Hurley and Harper for Juliet is anyone's guess at this point.

Moreover, we're really left to wonder just who the good guys and bad guys are on this show. Claire pretty much nailed it when she called Team Locke "hostiles," even if she may not know the echo such a word produces in terms of the Island's sociological history. But on one side we have Ben Linus, and on the other, Charles Widmore. Honestly, I wouldn't want either of these guys as a doubles partner in tennis at this point. But neither are necessarily moustache-twirling baddies who want to drink your milkshake. Ben's a potentially tragic figure (if my Annie calculations are correct), and Charles' backstory may exonerate/explain part of his actions as well.

And in between these two? Well, there are the Lostaways, to be sure. But also the Others, as well, hiding in some place called "The Temple." Desmond and Penny, likewise, stand in the crosshairs of these two men. But even more so, standing between the titans that are Linus and Widmore, is the Island---the Island that is literally crying for the help of the Oceanic 6 in the not too distant future. Because if even Juliet is wrong, and Ben doesn't win the war, it's pretty clear that the Island is the one that loses this upcoming war.

What did you think of "The Other Woman"? What importance can we draw from a station called "The Tempest"? And what could Widmore and Company possibly do that would turn Sayid into a mercenary for Ben Linus? And be sure to check out more news, theories, and insight over at Zap2It's Guide to Lost.

Ryan also posts every 108 minutes over at Boob Tube Dude.

in ABC , Lost

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first reaction: how many times did they say the word "hostile?"

mri | Mar 6, 2008 8:41:20 PM | #

Thanks Ryan and great summary!! I loved tonight's episode!!

Jerry | Mar 6, 2008 8:43:11 PM | #

second reaction: smokey didn't come out of the Tempest. boooo.

still a great episode. lots of stuff answered. it's refreshing not to be sobbing like last time.

mri | Mar 6, 2008 8:45:32 PM | #

Funny how answers always lead me to new questions. So when Ben said every living person on the island would die if the freighter people came, did he mean he would be the one to kill them all with the gas like he did before? And was anyone else surprised when that red notebook came out of the safe? When Locke pulled the tape out I saw nothing red at all underneath it.
Wasn't Goodwin also some kind of doctor along with Ethan? I seem to remember him being with Juliet in the OR when the pregnant woman died. So why were they working with chemicals and gas?
I agree that Juliet has become Annie to Ben. His "You're mine!" comment makes me wonder if something that happened Annie that set him off and caused the purge. Maybe she became involved with someone else?
As for the map, wouldn't it have had to be made by someone who not only knew the island, but was directly involved with Dharma? I would imagine only a select group would have even known about the Tempest given it's potential hazards. What if Charles Widmore was working with Annie?
I also found it interesting that Harper told Juliet Ben was exactly where he wanted to be, just like Miles told Kate. Speaking of Miles, if he can speak to the dead, shouldn't he have been going crazy at the barracks where all those folks were gassed to death?
And isn't it funny that Ben had Charles Widmores almost son-in-law right under his nose and never even knew it. Or did he?

Shari | Mar 6, 2008 9:34:14 PM | #

Great Episode, Good Character development! Cant wait for next week.

Tyson | Mar 6, 2008 10:13:44 PM | #

Another awesome episode - this season rocks!

Shari: Yes, I was surprised by the folder - sure looked to me like there was only a tape in there when Locke opened it.

Ryan: I know these are recaps of THIS week, not rehashes of last, but I half-expected some outrage from you about the pop-up rerun. Specifically, during the auction scene, there was a popup telling us where we could go to get more info on the Black Rock. And where was that? Yes. Yes, indeed: Find815.com.

Maybe Carleton was misquoted. Maybe he said 'it has no cannon' not 'it's not canon'.

And a third thing. There have been a veritable plethora of postings around and about this blog, so I may have missed or forgotten that this was already dealt with. If so, I apologize for the rehash. But in perusing another forum, I ran across a comment that really struck me, vis-a-vis the whole time travel / time-is-different issue.

In Confirmed Dead (the episode with flashbacks of the freighter folk), when Miles goes a-ghost-busting at that woman's house: as he goes upstairs, the camera pauses on a set of photos. These photos are in wooden frames. When Miles comes back down, our attention is briefly brought back to those same photos. Except they are NOT the same; they are now in METAL frames (and I'd swear they're in a different configuration, too). There is confirmation of this over at Lostpedia. A total what-the-hell moment...

DanC | Mar 6, 2008 10:26:33 PM | #

Vindication for ya, Ryan! Sweet, sweet vindication.

That being said...is there ANY event in the Lost world that isn't being manipulated by Benjamin Freakin Linus?! The guy is like an American Express card, everywhere our characters want to be.

Also, my grand "the Freighties are coming to kill everyone with Sarin gas" theory that I've held onto like a Hank Aaron rookie card just got a HUGE kick in the crotch tonight. It's entirely possible that Widmore (boy, it's great to finally have a a name and face for the one pulling the strings) may still be trying to enact the Spider Protocol on the Island, but it seems that Faraday and his cohorts aren't a part of it, or at least, nerve gas isn't the way it'll go down.

This brings me to my next point. What if, (and like all things Lost, this is a big If), the Spider Protocol has already been enacted on the Island? From what I understand about it, the Protocol is a way of targeting specific people with specific genetic markers and exposing them with a virus or toxin. So what if this virus is the one that make all the pregnant women not only unable to give birth, but to kill them in the process?

The Valenzetti Equation seems to insinuate that over-population is a factor towards the end of mankind, so perhaps the Island was made into another test case, testing a form of population control before expanding it to the rest of the world.

But I digress, that is out there. Anyhow, the Book of Ben got a BIG push tonight, and we see that for all his grand scheming, his now-global war, his genocide of Dharma and his rise to power and continued attempts to safeguard the Island is nothing more than this simple truth; Ben just wants his baby back. This is really why he won't let Juliet leave, because in his twisted little mind, she is Annie.

I'm still waiting for the Orchid to make its appearance, and by proxy, for the Orchid orientation film to finally have relevance to actual events.

One final thought for you, Ryan. You said awhile back that it seems Team Locke is slowly turning into the Others. The fact that Ben is now walking around New Otherton freely again, back living in his own freakin' house, makes that previous observation all the more prescient.

Other Sean | Mar 6, 2008 10:31:13 PM | #

Annie = Penny? Anyone think this is a possibility?

Brandon | Mar 6, 2008 10:32:24 PM | #

Oh, and the "I hope my dinner didn't have a number on it" joke doesn't count as relevance to the Orchid video. Though it was a clever nod.

Other Sean | Mar 6, 2008 10:34:06 PM | #

Yea, don't get me started on the Find815 reference in the repeat.

And the gas mentioned/feared in tonight's episode may have made an appearance in "Via Domus".

Then again, the producers of Lost don't even do those pop ups, as I understand it: it's a marketing firm.

Pardon me while I bang my head against the wall.

Ryan | Mar 6, 2008 10:34:28 PM | #

So glad there will be 5 more episodes made and the wait for lost was well worth it! A great season so far!

Jason | Mar 6, 2008 11:11:16 PM | #

if i recall, wasn't there also a reference made to the fact that juliet also looked like jack's wife...could jack's wife and annie be the same person?? i've said it before and i will say it again...i believe sayid (in the future) works for ben to get back on the island because he is led to believe that nadia is on the island and he wants to get to her...i had so many things popping into my head when the question was posed concerning the person (Ben's man) that was on the boat...it seems obvious that it could be michael...but all these unobvious people kept coming to mind: Charlie, Ecko, or even Boone...who's to say any one of them didn't make some sort of deal to "play" dead?? this was a great episode...

sandra | Mar 7, 2008 12:15:19 AM | #

I used to really hate Ben, but I am beginning to like him now because he shows just how gullible John Locke is.
With that said though, I found this episode to be filler in many ways rather than answer questions. It just simply confirmed a lot of stuff in my book and gave us a nice dosage of new information. I like Juliet's backstory and the whole analogy of the episode title "The Other Woman". Juliet is the "other woman" in many ways, which Ryan stated above. But you left out one, Ry, which is Juliet is also the other woman to Jack since Kate is his main love. Juliet is proving to be a more likeable character to me every week, because she provides sort of a tipping scale when it comes to Ben. When you think he is genuine, she always reveal something sinister about him and it puts Ben back into the shady category.

But to me the highlight tonight was the trailer to next week. I felt like it was a trailer for one of the upcoming summer blockbusters. I SOOOO cannot wait till next week!

Mark O. Estes | Mar 7, 2008 12:20:44 AM | #

I actually want to discuss the promo for next week where they mention that we'll discover the last of the Oceanic 6. The way it was phrased left it open to interpretation as to whether they will reveal 1 or 2 people. So I guess after next week we will know 1 way or the other if Aaron is considered one of the Oceanic 6.

When I first heard/saw the promo I thought it was worded as if they were revealing the last person - but they actually said "You will discover the last of the Oceanic 6" -> I got to admit that it is going to bug me until we actually see next week. The heavy implication in the promo is that it is a combination of Sun/Jin, but don't know if it will be 1 or both.

Rishi | Mar 7, 2008 12:50:13 AM | #

They'll probably imply it to be Sun & Jin, then pull another "Gotcha!" and have it be one of them and someone we wouldn't expect, like Locke or Michael.

Speakin of which, I think it's obvious our favorite double agent will finally show up at the tail end of next week's show.

Other Sean | Mar 7, 2008 1:36:16 AM | #

That Juliet was supposed to "look just like her", her being Annie was my first thought too. (I've always suspected that she learned of Ben's plans and left the island; now I think she probably works with Charles Widmore.)

But then I realized that Juliet looks an awful lot like Ben's mother, and her ghostly appearances around the camp did start the whole ball rolling. "Her" could very well = his mom.

j | Mar 7, 2008 4:27:00 AM | #

I had that same thought, j, about "her" possibly being Ben's mom, but then got creeped out at the serious Oedipal complex what with how Ben was looking at Juliet with those "puppy love" eyes. That guy is a seriously amazing actor the way he can turn it on/off. "You're MINE" (Slam! Control is re-established, the wall goes back up...) "Let me know when you're done." All casual, like he hadn't just had an outburst. Creepy!

I'm leaning towards "her" being Annie....

djc | Mar 7, 2008 5:15:29 AM | #

I think Sun and Michael are our final 2 of the Oceanic 6. Sun because she's being pushed from the island so she will live. Michael because he is already on the freigter (I laughed in the promo when they talked about someone we'd never expect to be back... hello he's been in the credits for every episode this season!). Sun gets taken to the freighter.

I can see Hurley leaving Camp Locke next week with Ben on the loose. Sawyer is going to be pissed. We all knew something was going to happen to split up Camp Locke because Hurley ends up off the island. Letting Ben loose could be the breaking point.

I'm calling for Sun to get off, then Hurley shows up on the beach telling them Locke let Ben loose and he gets off and then Jack and Kate leave either right before or after some sort of big tragedy.

Josh | Mar 7, 2008 5:56:17 AM | #

Last night we got definitive confirmation that Ben is truly evil...

He taped over the Red Sox World Series.

That is just wrong!

Bill | Mar 7, 2008 6:00:35 AM | #

I third that Oedipal reference, because if i'm not mistaken, Annie was a brunette. Of course hair color is a minor thing, but still Elizabeth Mitchell and Michael Emerson's wife(Ben's mom) do favor each other a lot. This episode showed a very different although no less creepy side of Ben. His almost child-like obsession with Juliet and it was very weird to see him hopping around like a schoolboy when Juliet showed up for dinner! I actually thought she and Ben had been an item, but to see that it was only him makes it very intriguing. I loved seeing so many of my suspicions get confirmed and i knew they were going to hold out revealing who was on the boat, but that's not exactly going to be that big of shocker to me either. Still, a really good show and they managed to give just about every major character at least some screen time. Now we need to find out what the deal with the voices in the woods are and how some of these Others just appear and disappear.

steve | Mar 7, 2008 6:03:51 AM | #

Wow, Andrea Roth (Harper) was great in this episode. She bore no resemblence at all to Janet Gavin. Terrific performance.

If Elizabeth Mitchell doesn't receive an EMMY nomination for this hour then there really is no justice in the world.

Brian | Mar 7, 2008 6:35:39 AM | #

Bill-
I had the exact same thought!

morgan | Mar 7, 2008 6:39:37 AM | #

Definitely an interesting twist on Juliet's relationships, both with Ben and Goodwin. I, too, had the impression that Ben and Juliet had been an item, one that didn't end especially well. I also thought she and Goodwin were married, not just sneaking around behind his wife's back.

My one disappointment with the episode: when Jack & Co. left the beach to follow Faraday and Charlotte and it immediately started pouring rain, I was SURE Smokey was going to show up. But all we got was Little Miss Cranky-Pants. Unless that wasn't really her...

DanC | Mar 7, 2008 6:41:54 AM | #

The one continuity error that I can see, thinking about it on the way to work this am, is that when we first saw Juliet and Goodwin together, they were in her bungalow. Last night's ep suggested they would never have done that so brazenly.

As far as the appearance of Harper: one thing I didn't think of until today was the certificate we see at the top of the episode. The word "EXPERIMENTAL" was listed in one of them.

What if Harper's function is to literally read the minds of the Others while in forced therapy, as part of Ben's plan to know how to manipulate everyone?

This would assume she has ESP of some sort, would explain how she could talk to Ben, and could explain how she could astral project (like Walt).

Or, you know, it was Smokey. Always a possibility.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 6:48:05 AM | #

Whoever said Annie=Penny may be onto something. I have nothing to back this up, of course; just my suspicions. It could be possible that Charles Widmore is Annie's father, whether is Penny or a sister of our Penny. Penny could save the day if she were Annie by melting Ben's evil heart just long enough to save everyone on the island. I hope this doesn't mean Ben Kills Desmond!!!!! Oh this theory is just oo depressing to think about.
C'mon....who didn't know the boat belonged to Widmore???? That's been thrown around for months now on all kinds of LOST websites. Kudos to Ryan for his forward thinking on this one.
Juliet thinks Ben will win all in the name of possessing her. Now she's making out with Jack. Jack makes it off the island with Kate. Jack confesses to still loving Kate at the close of her trial. What happens to Juliet?
Does Ben kill her in a "If I can't have her, no one will" kind of hissy fit?
Ben definately has Mommy/Daddy issues. If it's an obssession with his Mom, that would be even more creepy than I suspected ben to be capable of.
If it's anyone but Michael on that freighter, I will be suprised. According to the previews we'll see someone we never expected to see again. They could be throwing us a curveball but, us fans have been expecting to see Michael for some time now and we all know that there is an upcoming episode that is Michael-centric. Plus, like someone said, his name has been in the credits all season.

Chris | Mar 7, 2008 7:00:02 AM | #

in the trailer for next weeks show, i paused it and on the note, which definitely looks like its written in a child's handwriting, it says, "don't trust the captain."

i still believe its michael and walt but when the teaser says it's someone who you didnt think youd see again... welp, if they pull off someone else, i will be once again screaming at my tv screen.

last night, i was screaming NO when jack and juliet kissed, which at the end panned out to the tunnel of the tempest i believe to imply kate witnessed this interaction. i really didnt like the love story part of last nights show -- from bens creepy obsession, to julietts man stealing past, to her big (cough) reveal of her emotions for jack... that was all a bit *days of our lives* (scratch that, more like *passions*) for me. my favorite line, next to the number on the bunny though, was after ben showed juliett goodwins body and uttered his creepy "you're mine"... was whatever he said after that like "take your time" or something. his mannerisms were so funny. hes a brilliant actor.

mel-c | Mar 7, 2008 7:19:13 AM | #

Ryan- I noticed that too. I would hate to think that is a continuity error, maybe something happens between Goodwin and Harper that lets Juliet and him be together officially? I think the Others probably have a divorce court in their little village, no?

Also, the ESP thing is a nice idea. Perchance this is another tie-in to Via Domus since ESP was a major part of Elliot's flashbacks?

Blue Sean | Mar 7, 2008 7:30:35 AM | #

Going off-topic a little from all the juicy bits in last night's show, but I think it's worth bringing up:

One of the things that's making this season so enjoyable is that it's rediscovered a sense of humor. Several really funny Ben lines last night -- "I taped over the game," "This didn't have a number on it, did it?" and, best of all, "See you guys at dinner" as a dumbstruck Hurley and Sawyer look on.

I don't know whether it's because the writers know there's an endpoint, or because the structure of the show has opened up, or what, but the occasional lighter moments (and winks and nods to all us nerds) have been hugely welcome.

rick | Mar 7, 2008 7:42:47 AM | #

Blue, ESP has been part of Lost since Ben started hissing about how special Walt was. I think Via Domus just built on that.

Someone above mentioned Juliet resembling Sarah, Jack's wife. In that they're blonde, sure, but otherwise they're not similar at all.

I e-mailed Ryan as soon as the find815.com bubble popped up, so we could bang our heads against the television together. Who do we believe, the writers or our own lyin' eyes?

Andy | Mar 7, 2008 7:44:51 AM | #

I was amused in the opening sequence how the writers were manipulating our desire to know who the remaining Oceanic 6 were. Juliet's interview and its concerns over her being a celebrity were exactly what one would expect for a survivor of a traumatic event like a plane crash. And the others of six have already been washed with celebrity in the episodes so far.

As to who the remaining two are, I'm think Sun and Jin, but it could be Sun and Michael, I suppose. Jin may stay on the island. But would Michael leave Walt behind?

William Robinson | Mar 7, 2008 7:46:39 AM | #

Rick: I also liked Juliet's "It's very stressful being an Other" or something like that when Jack questioned the existence of a therapist in the Barracks. Reminded me of her "I had the day off" when Hurley asked why she wasn't on the docks.

Andy: Bang your head, man. Metal health will drive ya mad.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 7:47:08 AM | #

O.K. - I read your past post (the "I told you so" post) and now I realize - I have no idea what's going on.

Sue | Mar 7, 2008 7:48:12 AM | #

it was a great episode last night!

Dory | Mar 7, 2008 7:48:22 AM | #

I know a show has me completely hooked with it's storyline elements when I read "there was approximately eleven minutes in which Elizabeth Mitchell's cleavage was on full display" and I realize I was so wrapped up in the story I didn't even take notice of what I would with any other show!! LOL

TE | Mar 7, 2008 7:57:03 AM | #

A couple of theories of who Ben has on the boat. To preface it, remember Ben told John he better sit down before he told him. If it was Michael, would that have been so shocking to John, that he'd have to sit down?
Theory 1: It's Sayid. Somehow the time travel issues play a role in this. Remember, Sayid works for Ben in the future.
Theory 2: It's Ethan. He was conspicuously absent last night. First he was "sick" which prompted Goodwin to bring Juliet the extra sandwich. Then in the crash scene, where Ben barks out his orders to both Goodwin & Ehtan, we don't see Ethan. The previous 2 times that we have seen that scene, we saw him. Now of course, that may have something to do with the actor and money/contractual issues.

Bob | Mar 7, 2008 8:14:33 AM | #

Last night's episode should be taken with a huge grain of salt. From the very beginning, the whole "things aren't what they seem" theme was set. Boaties and their "plan" also point to this "message". I think the Widmore file/film are there to throw Locke and us off, just as the first sequence was meant to throw the viewers off....Ben is lying, question is...how much?

Oz | Mar 7, 2008 8:37:03 AM | #

Bob, I totally believe Michael being on the freighter would surprise Locke.

Ethan was pretty convincingly dead, post-Charlie's gunshot.

Andy | Mar 7, 2008 8:53:20 AM | #

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who is now convinced that Penny is Annie. I mean we don't know he middle name, possible Penelope Anne Widmore. It just all around makes a whole lot of sense.

John | Mar 7, 2008 8:55:53 AM | #

omg! Electric Boogaloo! I LOVE IT! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only fan of Breakin'!!

amy | Mar 7, 2008 9:11:07 AM | #

Yes Brandon - as soon as Harper said you look like her to Juliet, the first thing I tought was Penny is Annie. Now this may not be true, but it could explain a lot of things. I've always thought Penny looks like Juliet, but that could have been just weird casting. Anway, if Penny is Annie, she would know Ben killed everyone in Dharma. That's how Faraday would know Ben's used the gas before. Also, Penny/Annie could have told Widmore what happened, making him want to find the island and stop Ben. Penny could be wanting to get back to the island both for Desmond and to get back at Ben. But then again, this could all be wrong.

Aaron | Mar 7, 2008 9:18:14 AM | #

So, if Penny were Annie, why would it take her three years worth of research to discover the existence of an Island she grew up on?

Just askin'.

"Penny-as-Annie" is one of those great theories that makes sense until you actually try and put two and two together.

Given Ben's resources, and ability to time travel/time warp/globe trot, and given how he seemingly knows everything about everything, it stands to reason that were Penny actually Annie, there's no way 1) Ben would remain on the Island alone or 2) he would have taken Penny-as-Annie back with him during one of his many trips.

Just doesn't add up.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 9:29:49 AM | #

...The Penny-is-Annie theory is at least interesting to contemplate. Maybe Penny/Annie doesn't know HOW to get back to the island, like future alcoholic Jack. She knows of its existence, its possible whereabouts and maybe something of its properties, but she's applying resources (e.g., men in listening posts) trying to help her locate it.

Daddy W. is protecting her somehow from Ben, so Ben isn't able to get to her (although, from what we've seen of Ben, Ben usually gets what Ben wants). But Daddy W. doesn't want to reveal to Penny/Annie where the island is and is enacting his own kind of revenge on Ben ... and using Desmond in the process.

However, I see Penny as totally devoted to Des and can't quite see Ben in her past, even her childhood. Unless it is like the same one-sided obsession he has with Juliet.

But it is certainly interesting to contemplate....

djc | Mar 7, 2008 9:49:20 AM | #

Ryan,

Why does Ben not mention that Charles Widmore has a daughter that has been looking for someone on the island? Locke knows Desmond and everyone knows about Desmond's love, Penny. I kept expecting Ben to say something to Locke about Desmond and Penny once he revealed that Widmore wants to get onto and exploit the island for financial gain.
If Penny is Annie or Penny has a sister named Annie (like Jack and Claire), perhaps she was taken off the island by Widmore and that's what may have set Ben off and what cause the "purge". Ben's a spiteful little man, I wouldn't put it past him.
BTW funny comparing Locke to Mold.

Chris | Mar 7, 2008 10:01:32 AM | #

With everything that we've learned about Charles Widmore, I can't help but to reflect on how Desmond found himself on the island in the first place. It was "taily" Libby that gave the boat to Desmond. The boat that belonged to her dead husband. I suppose there may be a connection between Charles and Libby and we may even find a few answers in the mental hospital that Libby and Hurley were residents at....the same location where the "numbers" were revealed to Hurley.

B. A. Brewer | Mar 7, 2008 10:10:40 AM | #

Chris: Except Widmore couldn't have known the location of the Island before 1996, since that's the year he buys the Black Rock ledger to figure out where the heck the Island is.

It's also pretty clear that Desmond kept Penny pretty close to the chest, as Sayid didn't even know about her until on the helicopter. So even if ben had spelled out the daughter's existence, it's unlikely Locke would have made the connection.

The Purge was part of a decade-plus long plan (roughly) to use the poisonous gasses produced/created within the Tempest against the Dharma Initiative. Thus, a result of a long-festered anger with both Daddy and Dharma rather than a reactionary result from a singular act, such as kidnapping.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 10:11:22 AM | #

Great ep last night. Personally, I think Harper from last night was actually Jacob. I mean she took off and completely vanished! Who else but Jacob. I'm not sure I'm into the Annie=Penny theory. That would have to mean that Charles was on the island too and...well, honestly, I can't quite shoot that down yet.

I really loved the scene between Jack and Juliet. She's SO much better for them than "red or blue sock, I don't know which" Kate. And despite the fact that I know Jack loves Kate, I'll be very sad when they come to goodbye.

I don't think Sun and Jin make it off together. Maybe Jin and the kid will, if Sun doesn't survive the pregnancy.

The last of the six? I predict Locke who can't resist the urge to be mold.

Him or Michael. It's one their funeral that Kate wouldn't go to.

Lisa | Mar 7, 2008 10:16:01 AM | #

I believe Ben knows how to time travel and thats why they are after him. And that is how he leaves the Island and comes back.

Craig | Mar 7, 2008 10:16:54 AM | #

And someone mentioned Eko being on the boat. If it's him, I will hurl my Lost-obsessed body into my tv screen!

Lisa | Mar 7, 2008 10:17:01 AM | #

Also, has anyone guessed WHY no everyone else doesn't make it off?

My guess is the gas containment didn't work and it starts to seep out killing the weaker of the survivors.

That, or some time shift happens and the island right-corrects itself and all the ppl that would've died on the plane start actually dying of their "injuries".

Lisa | Mar 7, 2008 10:23:30 AM | #

Lisa: You're assuming that we know five of the six of the Oceanic 6. I'm not entirely convinced that's case.

I know the ABC promo monkeys alluded to Aaron as the fifth member, but between the promo monkeys, marketing firms writing the "pop up" quotes in the "Enhanced" eps, and everyone who writes the ARGs and video games, I think it's safe to say that we're in a land of confusion right now in terms of what really lines up with what's in Darlton's head.

And I'm not too happy about that.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 10:29:08 AM | #

Ryan,

Actually, I think there are two more. I think Kate shielded Aaron from the publicity, so to the world there are 6 other survivors besides him.

My guess:
juliet and jin. (sun and sawyer die in transit)

Lisa | Mar 7, 2008 10:40:47 AM | #

Could Juliet be one of the six, however, not being on the flight? Probably not.

Given what we saw last night, Juliet is more than likely the LAST person who can get off the Island so long as Ben is alive.

Just my instinct.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 10:54:55 AM | #

It really confused me last night when Ben said that Charles Widmore is trying to find the Island. I had assumed that the reason that Desmond was on the Island in the first place was that Charles Widmore (behind the scenes) sent him there to get Desmond away from his daughter. It just seems like too much of a coincidence that Desmond would end up on an Island that his ex-fiance's father is trying to find. Unless someone else has an explanation of the Charles Widmore-Desmond on the Island-Penny looking for him link?

Lauren | Mar 7, 2008 10:58:53 AM | #

Lauren: One possibility is that Widmore knew Penny would use her resources to look for the Island, essentially doubling Charles' own efforts.

Another possibility is that Widmore knows Desmond is the one that will turn the failsafe key (thanks to inside info from Ms. Hawking and Brother Campbell), just didn't predict that Des and his daughter would fall in love.

In any case, you're absolutely right: Charles engineered Desmond's arrival, much in the same way he engineered Henry Gales' arrival: he's simply triangulating the Island's location over a number of years. Three years and a purple sky after sending Des, he finally has.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 11:05:59 AM | #

How could Annie be Penny? She left the island and THEN developed her accent?

Doree | Mar 7, 2008 11:19:58 AM | #

Ryan, this is the best writeup of the episode I've read all day. And I've read them all.

tiff | Mar 7, 2008 11:28:27 AM | #

Semi-decent episode, thought not near as earth-shattering or mind-blowing as last week's. One thing that I've not seen mentioned (and if it was, chalk it up to my head cold and looking through bleary Nyquil-infused eyes) was the fact that Harold Perrineau (spelling?) was mentioned on the opening credits, yet never shown during the episode. Was this a goof-up, as in Michael was supposed to be on the show, but due to re-editing (most likely after the writers strike started) he wasn't included in any of the scenes? Or was it maybe a red herring (kinda like the Red Sox references might be just a way to distract us from various things) and thrown in to fool people under the influence of cold medication like myself who just might be seeing things that weren't there? Or has his name been on the opening credits all this time, and I've just not noticed until last night? I hate being sick, really I do. Anyway, I'm glad this episode was less intellectual than last week's, because I couldn't have begun to weave my way through any kind of high-falutin' scientific plotlines. The only thing I wonder is this: so far, only a few people have really had the chance to fully explore The Island (Ben, Locke and Rousseau), other than the ones who set all the Dharma Initiative stuff up to begin with. In all the time that Rousseau has been on The Island all by her lonesome, and since she obviously knows her way around, wouldn't she have found and mentioned a big honking facility such as Tempest? She knew where The Black Rock was, for Pete's sake, and that was a pirate ship hidden in rather a lot of trees. Seems to me she'd have noticed a rather large metallic structure sticking out from the side of a tree-less mountain, and might have mentioned this to Jack and the others. Maybe this will all happen down the road, who knows. As for Ben's ridiculously easy manipulation of Locke, my father and I talked last night after the episode, and he mentioned that Locke is a lot like certain officers he served with in the Air Force--smart as a whip, yet dumber than a bag of rocks. Locke is so easily led astraty, Dad said, because he is too in love with his own self-importance. All anyone has to do is play into that love of self, and John Locke will do whatever anyone convinces him is right (which may be why he is so in tune with The Island and why his father was able to con him out of a kidney). As for technical details, I loved how they reshot the Others witnessing the destruction of the plane, even though Ethan was nowhere in sight (he was in previous episodes, of course, but I imagine the actor who plays him might not have been available for this episode). Very sly editing, even if it was a little obvious. Finally, with the Harold Perrineau possible-blooper at the beginning of the show, I'm wondering if the person on the ship isn't Michael at all, but instead is Walt. If there is some sort of time differential between the outside world and The Island, that would go a long way towards explaining how Walt is likely so much taller now than he was when the show started. Last thought, and maybe I missed this at some point in previous episodes, but...where is Vincent? I realize keeping the same dog on a show like this for a seven season run will be nearly impossible, but at least it would be easier than explaining Walt's rapid height gain. After all, there were about a dozen different Lassies.

Dark Disciple | Mar 7, 2008 11:41:39 AM | #

Whoops, forgot to add: a lot of the "confusion" that Ryan mentions would be greatly alleviated if we all consider the episodes themselves as the only ones that matter in terms of canon and continuity. Forget the pop-up crap in the repeats, forget all the Internet games and other extra stuff and do what a lot of people do with the Star Wars or Star Trek universes: stick only to the actual events of the shown episodes and/or movies. I'm sure as hell not going to get a great deal of important information from a marketing firm. That would be like getting a circumcision from Oprah, really. Just because she knows about it, doesn't mean she can do it, eh?

Dark Disciple | Mar 7, 2008 11:46:28 AM | #

DD, Harold has been in the credits all season so far. My gut feeling is that we'll see him next week.

Andy | Mar 7, 2008 12:04:11 PM | #

Ryan,

You're rite bout juliet. still think she survives, tho. so maybe six would be walt. would be VERY cool.

i think it's WAAAY too obvious now that it's michael on the boat. they know that's what everyone's thinking and i think they'll keep just planting his name until we get used to it and then boom! ole mike'll pop up. and since the island is able to make the locke walk, it maybe able to bring someone back from the (near) dead, what about libby?
she did get shot, but what if she wasn't dead? what if she was sent by ben to give that boat to desmond so he could enter the "race", something that widmore engineered but didn't expect des to join. he thot he'd get the strongest boater to find his/her way to the island and out of pure coincidence it wound up being the person he least wanted to be involved with.

totally ridiculous and implausible and i'm sure i'm completely wrong, but it's out there.

Lisa | Mar 7, 2008 12:16:09 PM | #

Andy, thanks for the clarification. Maybe this Nyquil isn't frying my brain cells after all, ha!

Dark Disciple | Mar 7, 2008 12:33:15 PM | #

DD: What Andy said. Also, the producers' podcast mentioned that it's in Harold's contract to be in the credits each episode.

I realize this is a pipedream, but man, it would be nice in some cases if the actor/actress in question appearing in a surprise role decided to, you know, hide that fact and maximize impact. I know if a certain actor had been in the opening credits of "Pirates of the Caribbean 2", it would have dulled the impact of the last shot.

Oh, who am I kidding? "Pirates 2" was just plain awful regardless.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 1:02:55 PM | #

Bad as it was, that was still a surprising scene. Who among us was shocked by Charles on the Red Sox tape, when Alan Dale was in the credits (and not likely to appear in Juliet's flashbacks)?

Andy | Mar 7, 2008 1:10:16 PM | #

I guess it's semi-fruitless to argue; it's not like this will change. I just focus on the top 2/3rds of my screen during the credits and pray my eyes don't catch something they shouldn't.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 1:16:09 PM | #

Ryan: You beat me to it - I definitely think the best line of the night was Juliettes:

Jack: You guys have a therapist?
Juliette: It's very stressful being an Other, Jack.

The other lines mentioned in the comments above were great, too, but that one just cracked me up.

As for the guy on the boat - I agree Michael is the obvious choice, so it might be someone else, like Mikhail, The Man Who Wouldn't Stay Dead. Then again, all the in-show hype has been directed at character(s) who WOULD be surprised if it's Michael; all the external hype has been the ABC marketing bimbos who we know are less trustworthy than Ben.

A Penny-Annie connection is an intriguing idea, but I don't buy into it, for all the reasons Ryan mentioned.

Oh, and to William Robinson: I noticed that, too - how they tried to hint that maybe Juliette was an O6'er at the beginning. But then I noted that her hair and demeanor were the same as in Not in Portland (her coming-to-the-Island flashback episode, back when). So then I did wonder if was just a flashback after all, which it turned out it was.

DanC | Mar 7, 2008 1:22:42 PM | #

I think the question of who Annie is is going to be a big deal, and baed on what people have said here I think that it absolutely is either Penny(which can really put some more passion behind Ben and Widmore's war), Jack's wife (who was said to look like Juliet who was said to look like Annie), Juliet (who might not know it), Juliet's sister (longshot - she doesn't look much like Juliet, but they are sisters and young Annie looked nothing like grown Juliet), or Libby (I think this could seriously be it!)? Any other names to throw in the hat?
Also - the combination that Ben gave John to the safe... where these numbers of any signifiance?

Tonester | Mar 7, 2008 1:31:08 PM | #

Tonester: The #s were 36 15 28.

15 is obviously one of "The Numbers"--the other two don't have any significance that I can think of at this time.

Maybe we'll learn later that "36" was his number in the Dharma intramural softball league or something.

Ryan | Mar 7, 2008 2:19:24 PM | #

Juliet looks like Ben's mom, not Annie. He has mommy issues while everyone else has daddy issues.

J | Mar 7, 2008 2:35:02 PM | #

36 comes from (42+4)-8
28 comes from (15-8)x4

These numbers brought to you by being married to Ryan McGee....

Moonbeam | Mar 7, 2008 3:27:53 PM | #

I can see the arguments for Juliet looking like Annie, but I just don't buy it - I think she looks like Ben's mom. And we've seen her on the show, and she DOES look like ben's mom. Not to mention that Annie has brown hair. Yeah, I know you can dye your hair, but if the writers planned for Ben to be obsessed with Juliet because she looks like Annie, wouldn't they have just cast a blonde kid to play the part?

Even if it does turn out to be annie, that doesn't mean she necessarily survived the purge - she would have been an adult at the time of the purge. I do think it's more likely that Ben arranged for Annie to survive the purge and she died later when pregnant with Ben's spawn.

I also disagree on the Red Sox tape analysis. It has only been about 30 days since Jack watched the tape. The sub was blown up about 12 days after that viewing. I guess it's possible that Ben or someone else took that tape off the island and shot the Widmore footage, but that seems incredibly unlikely. Much more likely that someone else shot the footage (probably using something more portable than a giant video tape a decade or two out of date) and just sent the TV signal to the island, where it was dubbed onto that tape. The notion of Ben leaving the island and bringing and old tape with him seems beyond farfetched.

Good call on the Widmore prediction, I've been saying that since the beginning of the season - seemed pretty obvious all along.

Not a bad episode, but I'd rank it low for this season. Some cool parts and decent reveals, but I didn't buy Harper at all, and I thought the whole "gas" subplot was pretty contrived, especially shutting it down at literally the last second by typing frantically in a computer terminal.

milo | Mar 7, 2008 3:33:16 PM | #

Great episode again. More questions, but we did get some answers.

We really should be skeptical of what Ben said to John. Afterall, we know you can't trust him. Most of us have thought Widmore was behind the freighter, but something about the reveal just didn't feel right. I mean who was the guy blind-folded, and who was filming?

As far as the man on the boat. We know Michael is supposed to come back, so that's who we are expecting it to be. What if it is Richard or even Ben himself? That would really throw us off, wouldn't it? And who is the Captain going to be?

Great acting all around in this episode, especially Michael Emerson.

Looking forward to next week.

Ryan, podcast on Sunday again?

Shaggysteve | Mar 7, 2008 4:28:02 PM | #

Dark Disciple: I love when you comment on here, man. Hope you get well. I am glad someone else sees just how easily pimped Locke can be. I just rewatched Season One and it surprised me how much different I felt toward Locke during the initial airdates than I do now. I used to feel for that guy but watching them again on DVD I just completely hate him.

But here is another thing: When I saw Red Sox on that tape, my initial reaction was... "Oh GOD I hope that tape is not a taping of a 2007 Red Sox game..."

Mark O. Estes | Mar 7, 2008 4:52:02 PM | #

I also don't buy into the Annie=Penny theory. I think Annie's dead and Ben was responsible and/or blames Dharma for her death.

Also, Ben says to Juliet, "After all I've done to bring you here, after all I've done to keep you here" ... it sounds as though Ben specifically chose Juliet for some yet undisclosed reason. (And not because she's Annie since it seems unlikely that Juliet wouldn't know that she lived on the Island and knew Ben).

Lisa S. | Mar 7, 2008 5:50:51 PM | #

The man on the boat is supposed to be someone we don't expect to see again. The only people I don't expect to see again are those that have died. My leading dead candiddate would be Libby. Of course the promos can be misleading, so it probably is Michael,
although I would be surprised if, after all he went through to get him back, he would leave Walt behind and go back to the island again.

Annie=Penny? No. But how about Annie=Penny's mom?

Shari | Mar 7, 2008 5:59:51 PM | #

I've watched the promo for next week and one thing that I see and paused my VCR and played it slow, but I do see a woman wrapped/weighed down with chains jumps off the ship (or is tossed off) and I can't tell who it is... Julia? Kate? Charlotte? Claire? Sun?. We won't know if they actually drown or are rescued until next week.

RadicalRik | Mar 7, 2008 6:35:07 PM | #

I wanted to add a little insight on last weeks episode(Penny&Desmond). I have a feeling the reason why Penny said she has been looking for Desmond for 3 years is because he did not call her on Christmas Eve 2004. I belive it is actually 2007 Because if she was waiting for his call that day why would it take so long for her to pick up the phone and be so suprised when he called. I know there was a calendar on the freighter but it looked kind of beat up. Or maybe the freighter is on the same timeline as the island. Ok now my head is hurting!!

Brian | Mar 7, 2008 6:37:57 PM | #

Question: Does Locke know about Ben's room behind the bookcase that Sayid found with the cash and passports?

If not, Ben not only has freedom to do "Island business" but perhaps world-wide business.

Now that Ben is free, I wonder how much danger Miles is in? Ben can save some major cash (3.2 million) by just eliminating him instead of paying him.

RadicalRik | Mar 7, 2008 6:51:29 PM | #

milo: That's a really good point about the tape. I'm not entirely sure it fits the timeline, but maybe he had Mikhail record it at the Flame station (before Locke blew it up)? Not sure where Jack seeing the tape fits relative to the Flame being destroyed, but that would definitely be somewhere Ben could have recorded a remote feed.

DanC | Mar 7, 2008 7:03:35 PM | #

My thoughts:

1. Wasn't Fisher Stevens listed in the opening credits as a "regular" for a few episodes this season? So far he's only appeared on the freighter episode, and he died! The opening credits could be a red herring - no one will be surprised to see Michael.

2. No one's mentioned the significance of Widmore definitely spotting the cameraman just before the tape ends. Got to be a story behind that.

3. Is it possible Naomi's not dead? Sayid was looking at her in a rather strange way when she was laying next to the helocopter. What if Locke coated his knife with some of that Nikki/Paolo spider venom? Perhaps Jacob told him to do that - maybe it was Locke's eye that looked out at Hurley from Jacob's cabin.

4. Here's hoping there's a Rousseau flashback someday. Maybe the writers are saving it for a time when they're willing to reveal what time period she originally lived in.

5. We've now had several people (and one horse)mysteriously "appear" to people - seems like they are created somehow by the island. The smoke monster makes sense as we saw it taking pictures of Eko's memories. Besides Harper, the other appearances wouldn't have been generated by Ben, I don't think. So far we've seen Walt appear to Shannon, Sayid, and Locke; Hurley's asylum buddy; Jack's dad; Harper; Kate's horse; Charlie (off island). All seems to be "real", at least they can be touched. Am I missing any others?

PS3936 | Mar 7, 2008 7:14:03 PM | #

Oh, Shazzbutt! Just got on-line and caught up and it looks like others have already covered all of the great "Tempest"/Prospero analogies.

Not to mention the (fairly obvious to us Simpsons alien dorks) reference to Annie. (I hadn't occured to me that it could be a reference to Ben's mom... god I hope it isn't -- but I fear it could be.)

Well, I guess I can always nitpick. Once again I see basic flaws in an episode not written by Darlton (though not nearly as bad as those in "Eggtown"): I don't think it made sense for Charlotte to knock out Kate since they weren't (after all) trying to kill everyone on the island. This strikes me as just a lazy writer's trick to make the audience believe they were really going to kill everybody if Juliet/Jack didn't stop them first. Standard "B" movie tactic, not worthy of most episodes of LOST.

But, as others have mentioned, I did love all of the humorous lines in this episode.

Ryan -- Loved the eDharmany stuff -- I was laughing out loud!

Disappointed to hear that the pop-ups aren't being done by Darlton -- though it certainly explains some of them, including the infamous "815com" one.

Sandra - Oh god! hope the person on the boat turns out to be someone other than Michael (since that is so obvious) -- I'm rooting (if the dead are eligible) for Shannon!

For Penny to be Annie that would mean that Ben was lying when he said he didn't know how Widmore knew about the island. Not that Ben would ever lie, of course.

I also thought I noticed that Widmore seemed to notice the camera. And does anyone have any thoughts who the blindfolded guy is? And did Widmore kill him or just beat the crap out of him?

"concerned" (only a little) | Mar 7, 2008 10:01:46 PM | #

Hey Ryan I have a theory about Charles Widmore. What if Charles Widmore is/was the captain of the Black Rock? I do not know if others have come up with a similar theory and if others have I am so not plagiarizing you at all, it just came to me this morning. Now bear with me on this. We know that there is a time travel aspect about the island as well as a fountain of youth thing going on, wouldn’t it be interesting if he was connected to the Black Rock. In a recent episode he bought the captain’s diary from the Black Rock and in the tape that Ben showed Locke there is a cruelty of an old school pirate captain when he beat down one of Ben’s people, that might be a bit of foreshadowing going on. We can see that the people on the island do not age; an example would be Richard Alpert. So what if Alpert was a crewmember of the Black Rock and considered one of the Islands “original” inhabitants along with Jacob? Jacob could have been the original Ben/Locke/Walt that washed ashore to the Island on that boat. An aside, it seems that the control of the Island seems to go in cycles, one group is usurped by another new group and so on, but in each batch of new folks to the Island there is one or two that commune with the island. Well back to my theory. So what if Widmore left the Island decades ago with a bunch of other Black Rock crew members, maybe even with Mr. Paik and Matthew Abaddon, sent off by Jacob (doing the bidding of the Island) and they are now powerful and are able to get back to that fountain of youth they left so long ago? It is just a theory, you have tons that do not pan out so why can’t I.

Matthew | Mar 7, 2008 10:06:16 PM | #

I think thats a totally great theory! Maybe Widmore was willing to pay so much for the ledger not to find out about the island's whereabouts, but to keep them secret.

The other thing I found interesting was the dinner conversation between Juliet and Ben. She said the kids were asking about their mom in LA, and Ben said something to the effect of "They'll forget sooner or later". I thought this might be a reference to Annie stopping asking about her real childhood. Which might support the Annie=Penny story.

matthew | Mar 7, 2008 10:59:10 PM | #

oops! that last comment was supposed to be a response to matthew, posted by me!

morgan | Mar 7, 2008 11:00:32 PM | #

PS3936,

Danielle has been on the island for 16 years. We know this because she was pregnant when she got there and Alex, her daughter, is 16 years old.

That said, I would love to see a Rousseau flashback. We know she arrived with a team that are now all dead from some "sickness". What in the world has she been doing on the island for 16 years? Does she just hide out all day and only come out to scavange for food? Does she mess with the "others"? Why did she never attempt to kidnap her own daughter back from Ben? She must have had plenty of opportunity in those 16 years. She must have at least given it a shot or two.
I agree with whatever poster asked why Danielle didn't know about the Tempest power station or, if she did, why she didn't say anything to the Losties about it. I mean, she had to know the island like the back of her hand after spending so much time roaming around on it. Is she so afraid of the "others" that she spends most of her time hiding out instead of exploring? How'd she get so damn tough? Did she have company, someone to train her, give her those survival skills...........Rousseau's back story has got to be extremely intriguing and revealing at some point. Probably not this season, which bums me out but, I know it will be worth it when it finally airs.

Chris | Mar 8, 2008 6:59:20 AM | #

How about this one? Rousseau is Annie.

| Mar 8, 2008 8:01:58 AM | #

Chris:

Sixteen years on the island for Rousseau could be the equivalent of decades passing in the outside world. She could have arrived with the Black Rock for all we know.

PS3936 | Mar 8, 2008 8:15:27 AM | #

PS3936-

doubt that Rousseau came on the Black Rock since she mananged to leave that looping message that was transmitting continuously from the island. given, she might have had a lot of time on her hands to figre stuff out, but somehow i don't think she went all "Professor" on us and starting making radios out of coconuts.

mri | Mar 8, 2008 8:59:03 AM | #

The one character that I would be really surprised to see as Ben's spy is Dr. Artz.

Lost in Last Century | Mar 8, 2008 9:10:03 AM | #

I'm not sure we'll see who Ben's man on the boat is next week. The two hour episode that was to conclude this first half of the season has been pushed forward to be the premier of the new batch of episodes. That two hour 'cliffhanger" (as it's been portrayed) was supposed to be about Michael. It may be split into two episodes by the time it airs. IF we see who the "man on the boat" is, it will probably be a last scene surprise, since most of the episode is about Jin and Sun (another flash forward)

William Robinson | Mar 8, 2008 10:43:59 AM | #

What if Annie = Libby? I said it before, I think Libby was planted by Ben to give Desmond that boat. If anything it's a little suspicious that she would just give a total stranger a boat.

It would make sense since when Hurley checked the manifest, he didn't include the tailies. If Michael shot her unexpectedly, then that would explain Ben trying to get Juliet to take her place with the Losties.

Lisa | Mar 8, 2008 11:14:05 AM | #

LIsa,

Annie could be Libby but, Juliet was on the island before the plane crashed. If Libby were Annie and ben orchestrated her return to the island, then he wouldn't need Juliet as a replacement. Libby was killed AFTER Ana-Lucia killed Goodwin. Ben would have been furious with Michael for Killing Libby if she were Annie and would have Michael killed as well as Walt most likely.

Chris | Mar 8, 2008 11:27:03 AM | #

Mark O. Estes, thanks for the kind words. Doing better, but my head still feels like it's about a foot to the left of my neck. Bleah. As for all the comments about time elements and such, I really hope that when the Super-Duper-Deluxe-All-The-Bells-and-Whistles DVD collection comes out around 2011-2012 that they will present the episodes in two fashions: as they were originally shown in order of season, with flashbacks included as they were; and then completely re-edit the series so that everything happens in chronological order, from the first of the flashbacks to the last of the flashforwards. This will probably be a huge undertaking, but if the writers/creators have been keeping score, it probably won't take that much to accomplish. That way, those of us who really do nitpick this show to the Nth degree will be able to see if they've been playing fair all this time. Kind of like rewatching The Sixth Sense to see if M. Night Shamyalan was jerking our chain (he wasn't). Maybe seeing the show in chronological order rather than episodic will be a little off-putting to some, but it would still be kind of cool. And it might save the money we've been spending on multiple bottles of Tylenol to counteract the headaches we've been getting the past few years trying to keep up with everything. Oy!

Dark Disciple | Mar 8, 2008 12:14:22 PM | #

Matthew: Regarding the Black Rock. A trading ship that sailed from Portsmouth, England March 22, 1845 on route to the kingdom of Siam(Thailand) when it was lost. What was auctioned was actually the "journal of the first mate" sold by Tobard Hanso (distant relative of 'Magnus Hanso' captain of the Black Rock). Therefore, it's not the "Captain's log" that turned up among the artifacts of pirates on the island of Madagascar 7 years later. I don't know if any of that means anything....dates and years. Perhaps someone else can piece it together, but at the auction the auctioneer was very precise concerning information regarding the journal of the first mate.

It seems that it is not easy to come and go from the island, whether by 'tender' or helicopter...at least by those on Widmore's freighter.

If Widmore was the old captain of the Black Rock, it would seem that he would 1. know where it is and 2. know how to come and go from it.

That is just my observation.

RadicalRik | Mar 8, 2008 2:28:30 PM | #

when the story of annie came out in the ben flashback...my first thought was that annie was rousseau, but many people rejected the idea when it was posed..it made sense that annie (rousseau) could have been pregnant and ben was aware of this and "banished" her, along with a gas mask, to keep her protected..growing up on the island - she could have learned alot of survival skills/weaponry, etc. She may have just fabricated the story about her "people" so that she would not be found out. Perhaps Ben came back and took Alex, threatening that he would expose that she was still alive if she didn't cooperate..or maybe she didn't agree with what he had done and didn't want to return to live among them...she seemed to know an awful lot about the others, and about ben. Maybe he stole Alex in the middle of the night or ben somehow convinced her that alex had died. Maybe the "sickness" that Rousseau refers to is actually the purge...just a thought...

Sandra | Mar 8, 2008 3:03:54 PM | #

DanC: thanks for that cool tidbit about the frames from Confirmed Dead....

Bob: i also had the thought/feeling that ben's man on the boat could be sayid, using your exact same reasoning, the time travel possibility as well as sayid working for ben in the future.

djc, "The Penny-is-Annie theory is at least interesting to contemplate. Maybe Penny/Annie doesn't know HOW to get back to the island, like future alcoholic Jack."
i thought this also as an answer to ryan and specifically thought of jack, i mean he was on the island but it doesn't mean he can get back. but anyway, i'm not weighing in one way or the other about the whole penny=annie theory.

and finally, B. A. Brewer: yeah, it can't be a coincidence that libby gave a boat to desmond and then they end up on the same island! yes, maybe there is a connection between charles and libby and/or ben. but libby definitely seems to have had some inside track to info about the island. maybe libby is having episodes of travel like desmond. after all, she was in fact in a mental institution with hurley pre-crash. maybe she knew that plane would crash there, and it was her to the island or back again?? maybe hurley is her constant and that finally grounded her??

thanks everyone....

DL | Mar 8, 2008 5:00:50 PM | #

i've been a believer in the penny is annie theory since the annie episode aired. I thought in that episode we were led to believe that Annie left the island as a child - i thought that was what precipitated the wooden doll exchange. and i thought that annie's dad (widmore) was one of the leaders of dharma. seems to me that post-purge, annie's dad (widmore) would be very upset and wnat to seek revenge. recall the painting in widmore's office depicting polar bears and the word "namaste".

ben clearly had some way of masking the location of the island post-purge otherwise the real-world dharma people would have just come to the island and killed him immediately. i think widmore used desmond as bait to see if he could figure out where the island was located. he probably hired? libby to give him the boat to ensure that it had some sort of tracking device. it served the additional purpose of screwing des who we are led to believe widmore never liked.

likewise i think widmore was buying the journal to try to get some clues about where the island is located.

i shared the "you don't age on the island" theory but how does that explain aging we see by 1/ ben; 2/ alex; and 3/ rousseau?

bf | Mar 8, 2008 9:26:48 PM | #

Chris:
If Libby betrayed Ben somehow, she would be dead to him and that would explain why he wouldn't have punished Michael. Plus, if he told the rest of the Others that he was going to let him go, he couldn't go back on his word and not look bad to them ["The Man from Tallahasse"].

What if Libby betrayed Ben by working for Widmore and helping to orchestrate Desmond coming to the island? What if the time differential is the reason she wound up in the mental hospital in the first place?

Lisa | Mar 9, 2008 5:00:26 AM | #

I like the There Will Be Blood reference! Thanks Ryan!

Cynthia | Mar 9, 2008 9:29:45 AM | #

The whole Sayid is Ben's spy thing doesn't make any sense for numerous reasons. The time travel reason has the big hole in it that physical body doesn't time travel, but the mind does. Sayid was nowhere on the boat when Ben made the revelation about his spy. Also, it takes a helluva lot of time to get all that information on the freighters and such. If Sayid did send back info to Ben from the boat then it would totally clash with what's going on the island now.

I think that "The Economist" is just showing us the future pairing of Sayid and Ben and that's it. Its planted there for future reference and probably won't find out till next season since this season is about getting off the island and next is them trying to get back on the island.

Mark O. Estes | Mar 9, 2008 10:49:36 AM | #

Sorry for the double post, but I just saw on Lostpedia that Harper's diploma had a Hanso Foundation insignia on it and I am surprised that no one here brought this up. So does this mean that it's Widmore vs. Hanso/Dharma or what?

Mark O. Estes | Mar 9, 2008 11:12:32 AM | #

Her diploma from and connection to the Hano foundation leaves me wondering how she survived the purge. Weren't we led to believe that only the Others survived?

William Robinson | Mar 9, 2008 1:18:02 PM | #

If anyone's curious, the combination to the safe was a Season 4 clue in the ARG Find815. Too bad that game's not canon, according to the producers.

*bangs head against the wall after yet another piece of a non-canon game shows up in the program*

Ryan | Mar 10, 2008 7:19:58 AM | #

A few things...

Desmond has been missing for three years, he left on his boat race in 2001. If Penny was answering the phone in 2007 she'd say she was looking for six years.

The flame was blown up ten days after Jack saw the red sox tape, definitely enough time for Patchy to record the widmore video being broadcast in. And we've already seen them watch live video from the mainland in that station so we know they have the capability.

Fisher Stephens has been listed in a few episodes with the guest stars - he HAS been in the episodes when his voice was heard over the phone. Same goes for Regina - Zoë Bell has
appeared in the credits only when her voice has been heard on the satellite phone.

If Michael does turn out to be the man on the boat, I don't think anyone will be surprised...but that would never stop ABC's clueless promo department from making that claim.

"The two hour episode that was to conclude this first half of the season has been pushed forward to be the premier of the new batch of episodes."

While episode eight HAS been pushed forward, I don't know where you got the idea that it would be a two hour episode. Considering it was intended to be an episode in the middle of an uninterrupted season, I can't imagine why it would be two hours.

While all the theories about Annie being Penny/Rousseau/Charlotte/Libby are interesting, I don't think any stand up to real scrutiny. First, Annie obviously has no foreign accent, she sounds American - even if she left the island at age 10 or so, it seems unlikely she'd end up with a foreign accent. And Ben must have seen Libby's body, she was killed in the process of saving him. While he may have known her and even been her boss, he likely would have freaked out seeing Annie just after she was killed. The others probably would have told Michael that Libby was on their side and not to let harm come to her.

I think it's most likely that Annie died in the purge, she got pregnant and died (my pick), or that she's still alive somewhere. If she does turn out to be alive, I'd guess that she will just be Annie (new actress) and not a character we've seen before, none of the ones on the show really seem to fit.

| Mar 10, 2008 7:33:43 AM | #

I was so freakin happy to find out I was right about Widmore being behind everything.

I might end up wrong about Flight 815 (it's equally possible that Widmore faked the wreckage), but I'm glad to know I wasn't wrong about this!

Jeff | Mar 10, 2008 9:11:37 AM | #

ryan-

arms folded across chest and pouty lip out in sympathy for your noggin-banging.

mri | Mar 10, 2008 9:36:24 AM | #

Hey Ryan, did you look into that email I sent you? I hope you did cause man it will blow your mind...

But I still want to know about Harper's connection to Hanso and which side is Dharma really on? But then again it might be Dharma/Hanso vs. Widmore because it is plausible since Dharma/Hanso still knows where the island is located.

Mark O. Estes | Mar 10, 2008 12:00:00 PM | #

I don't think it is Michael on the ship. I think they rapidly aged Walt and the guy that played Michael is now playing Walt all grown up. What? Stranger things have happened :-)

deb | Mar 10, 2008 7:36:57 PM | #

I kinda had a theory about Ben. Got no proof or anything. But it would be interesting if Ben figured out some way to Manipulate that whole "Jumping Forward/Backwards into time" to his advantage somehow.

Micah | Mar 11, 2008 10:01:00 PM | #

Did anybody notice the painting shown briefly on the wall when Juliet entered Ben's house for dinner? I'm almost positive we've seen this painting before and that it is a painting of Ben's mother - alluding that the "her" that Juliet looks just like is Ben's mother, not Annie.

Melissa | Mar 14, 2008 1:29:07 PM | #