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The Great 'Lost' Debate: Six down, 12 to go

terry-oquinn-lost-0309-320.jpgWe're trying something just slightly different with this week's installment of The Great "Lost" Debate. Rather than discuss something specific in the most recent episode, "Sundown" -- because it would inevitably devolve into, "OMG Smokey! Kewl!!" -- we're panning back just a little bit to look at the first third of the season.

Come on along as we consider what the first six episodes have shown us, what they haven't, and what it all means for the show going forward (T-shirts sold separately).

Rick Porter: So we're now a third of the way through the last season of "Lost" -- and I have to say, typing those words bums me out a little. I'm trying not to let expectations for the end get too far out of whack, but it's safe to say that after six episodes, I'm pretty primed for good -- by which I mean surprising, possibly tragic, and not necessarily tidy -- things to come.

But since we had a pretty definitive ending to Act 1 of the season with "Sundown" -- Smocke cleaning house at the Temple and gathering his newly infected minions -- it's probably a good time to assess where things stand in the "Lost" universe, and what's been set up for the rest of the season.

Obviously, we don't yet know exactly what the sideways timeline represents -- Ryan, you and I both have pretty strong opinions on it, but any and all theories are still on the table at this point. So let's set that aside for a moment and look instead at the most recent events: Smocke marching away from the Temple with a cadre of followers, and Ilana, Ben, Sun and Lapidus running the other direction. Something's a-brewin', to be sure -- but what, exactly? Is it throwdown time?
 
Ryan McGee: I think throwdown time starts in full in the final third of the season. The middle third will probably consist of a few big character downloads (I'm thinking people like Ben, Richard, maybe Widmore) in addition to establishing the two sides of the War of the Island. Right now, the odds seem hopelessly stacked against Team Jacob, which is the entire point. Things SHOULD feel dire. Smocke SHOULD seem invincible. If Dogen's Magic Dagger is not as powerful as Maxwell's Silver Hammer, what can harm Smocke?

So, in addition to establishing the sides, the second third should hopefully establish the context of this war. We know Smocke wants to go home, but we don't really know the import of that wish. Is that what creates the separate timeline? And if it has a hand in it, what does it say about Desmond's presence there as a Puck-like figure, a sprite that can pop in and out of the action by the whims of higher beings? Establishing the conflict on the Island should establish the nature of the sideways timeline more definitively. If we can't draw a fairly reasonable conclusion as to its nature by hour 12, I might dig up Nikki and Paulo only to bury them alive AGAIN to release my rage.

The purpose of the first third was to declare The Island a "no safe zone" -- what was once called "the last safe place on the Island" is now in smokey, Smocke-laden ruins. Nowhere to run to, baby. Nowhere to hide. Help is apparently on the way, in the form of a mysterious visitor alluded to by Jacob. But can his remaining acolytes/unwitting followers hang on long enough for the human equivalent of a Dharma pallet drop?
 
RP: It does sort of feel like the Temple was the Jacob-following equivalent of Helm's Deep, doesn't it? Only the outcome of the battle -- if you can even call it that -- was not nearly as positive as it was in "The Two Towers."

So in terms of the on-island action, I think we're going to see a lot of the ostensible good guys -- Ilana, Sun, Hurley, Jack, Ben (in an enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend sort of way) and Richard -- on the run, sort of like the survivors of Flight 815 were living in fear Others early in the series. Smocke, meanwhile, will be consolidating his power and setting his plan in motion by continuing to tell his followers whatever they need to hear to keep them in line.
 
What I want to see, though, is some of what you suggested: a couple of big fill-in-the-blanks stories involving some of the characters -- particularly Richard (Nestor Carbonell has promised that's coming soon) and Ben, who have both been on the Island a long time and thus and probably hold at least some keys to whatever the final battle might be. I also think we'll get a lot better sense of how the sideways timeline fits into the larger narrative, be it an epilogue or something that will converge into the Island timeline (and, by the way, I'm totally having "Team Convergence" and "Team Epilogue" T-shirts printed up).
 
So that's my best guess as to what WILL happen. My question to you, then, is what do you WANT to see happen?
 
RM: The issue with asking something like "What do I want to see happen?" is that the answer is insanely specific. What I want is nothing like what you want or what anyone else wants. But to answer it in a way that's as vague as possible: I want to see why this final chapter of the "Lost" saga matters. And I don't mean "last chapter" simply in terms of the events on the show, but the events on the Island. That sucker's been around long enough for ancient civilizations to erect massive statues upon it, and everything that's happened on the Island had led to the destruction of The Temple by Smocke.

In working through the back stories of people like Ben, Richard, and Ilana, I hope the show gives context to this battle in addition to giving us as an audience reason to fear Smocke leaving the Island. It's all fine and good to paint Jacob and Smocke as in varying shades of gray -- not simply "light" and "dark" -- but at some point, I want to root for someone! I'm pretty sure I should be siding against Smocke, but I need a more definitive reason WHY I should be doing so other than mere intuition.

More specifically, want I want to see in the next third: Ben finding a purpose. Ilana reminding Richard of HIS purpose. Learning the purpose of the mysterious visitor coming to the Island. And, yes, a "Team Convergence" t-shirt. Halter top, if you please.

RP: That's a good deal to ask -- but the thing is, I don't really see it as asking too much at this point. Inevitable ups and downs aside, these six episodes have done a pretty excellent job at setting the table for the conclusion of the series -- and going back and forth here has reminded me not just to look week by week at what's happening but to remember that what we've seen so far is part of a whole. With that in mind, I'm reasonably confident that "Lost" is going to give us what we need (if not exactly what we want) over these next 12 hours. (Oh, and one halter top, size extra small, coming up.)

Ryan invites you to join the hundreds already in Zap2It's Guide to Lost Facebook group.

Related:

Letters from the Flame: 'Sundown' questions answered
More 'Lost' debates

Photo credit: ABC

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Ryan,

Have you read the piece by io9's Meredith Woerner:

http://io9.com/5485987/5-reasons-losts-parallel-universe-is-a-waste-of-time

She makes some very good points.

I want to see this all flip where Smokey is the good guy and Jacob is actually the baddy. I can't imagine that John Locke - a man who believed in the magnitude of his fate - would end up the tool for evil. And what if the numbers (Sayid, Jack, Hurley, Jin, Sawyer, Locke) weren't blessed by Jacob - but rather cursed, as repeatedly insisted by Hurley himself? Huh, huh? Maybe a long shot, but it would be one helluva twist!

Here's something that's always bothered me - how come the word "minion" is invariably preceded by the word "evil". Is it an inherently negative word? How come only villians have minions? Could Mother Teresa's followers be called minions?

Anyhoo, I'm with Ryan in wanting to know the why - why these people, why this time! That's ultimately what makes the story worth telling.

Excellent discussion Rick and Ryan.

I'm looking forward to finally learning Richard's story.

I have to agree with the io9 link, though (thanks Michael!). The sideways timeline seems a lot like the writers are just having fun goofing with their world before shutting it down for good. We'll have to wait and see to know for sure, though.

Has anyone thought that the person comming to the island is the candidate from the sideways time-line? Maybe the line uttered "it worked" means that this alternate universe was created to get the candidate to the island to win the war. And for those who want to see redemption for Sayid, Locke, and others - perhaps this candidate brings others with him (or her - but I'm pretty sure its Jack) to win this war. I'd love to see a scene where Sayid the good confronts Sayid the bad - and Locke confonts the Man in Black in his form. Just a thought...

I have to continue. What if we see the deaths of Ben next week - followed by others - even Jack? And after killing all of Jacobs followers- the MIB gets ready to exit the island and just as he's about to leave - here comes the candidate with his army from the sideways timeline. It could happen...

@martin: wow. that is some crazy stuff you are talking...i love it! i don't see how wheelchair bound locke can confront the mib but after jack's surgery and three years to get himself back to normal perhaps this point is moot. i hadn't heard anything like the before and i really, really like it.

So, some are talking about the sideways world as being a world free from Jacob. What if it was free from the influences of the MiB? Trying to avoid using 'devil' analogies...but MiB is full of false promises; twists the truths; omits the full truths to manipulate & deceive his minions; to get them to do what he wants them to do, while making them THINK they are making a free will choice that contains all the options. What if it was a world without the influences of the MiB?


How do you kill Smocke? Could it be simply by not following him, and therefore he loses the end game? "They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt." Jacob is still trying to prove MiB wrong. There is good in each one & if that internal good wins out, so will Jacob. Jacob has faith that the candidates not yet crossed out will be the ones (with the leader who is coming to the island) to defeat MiB. The progress being made is the development of each's character; ensuring the white overcomes the black from within.
...just a thought!

one thing keeps bothering me: why has jacob taken such a direct involvement (or as direct as it gets for him) with jack and hurley? are those two the only viable candidates anymore?


austen was #51 on the wheel but she was crossed out; kwon #42 jin has been captured (as it were) by smocke; jarrah #16 died and was claimed; ford #15 checked himself out and was recruited (perhaps) by smocke; locke #4 died.


this leaves shepard #23 and reyes #8. i suppose i have to admit that there is still the possibility of kwon #42 sun since she is with iliana's group that is part of jacob's team.


it does seem to me that jack is being favored over the others; why? i'm dying to know what it is that jack has to do!

Martin I really like your theory about the candidate coming from 'off-island' but I think the only one that could possibly do that and not make the audience feel cheated is Locke.

Simply because many viewers thought he died before fulfilling a purpose and so wouldn't feel cheated by another version of himself coming to the island - especially when his previous incarnation is now long gone.

I like this theory - as it lends credence to Jacob's 'loophole in a loophole' - MiB gets a candidate (Locke) to convince 'himself' to leave the island, be killed and be brought back only for Jacob to be one step ahead and have organised for an alternative version of Locke to be created who will come to the island and defeat the MiB.

...once again my head hurts!

and splinter, I think Jacob's actions are partly due to circumstance. Now he is dead he can only talk to Hurley and Jack was the only non-infected candidate at the safe temple at the time of getting Hurley to leave.

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