'Lost': Is all the Kate hate justified?

It really sounds like you don't like Kate very much. Why waste a week on a character about whom you don't have anything nice to say? She has more than one line, and in the show I'm watching, Jack isn't the man who is the love of her life. I was looking forward to these posts, but not now.

You think Jack is meant to be the love of her life? Really? I don't see that at all. Why would she have chosen keeping her promise to Sawyer off island even though it meant the end of her engagement to Jack? Kate and Sawyer have been given the romantic treatment, with the initial antogonistic banter, the love scene(s), the love declarations, the big separation and relationships with other people that failed (Jack/Kate, Sawyer/Juliet), and now the reunion in time for Season 6. Jack and Kate never even had a love scene; their whole sexual relationship was implied. I have to think these writers aren't going for Jack/Kate as their big romance. Come on Ryan, you're smarter than that, aren't you? This looks like a Star Wars type triangle to me (or even Harry Potter). Sawyer is Han Solo, the romantic lead. Jack gets the mythological destiny.

If Jack is the love of Kate's life, then what a pathetic love story. Even his proposal was all about him. ("Am I really good at this, Kate?") Blech. I don't think you're paying as much attention to these characters as I thought you were. Kate told Jack on the plane "We're on the same plane, Jack. It doesn't make us together." Juliet told Sawyer "Just because two people love each other, doesn't mean they're meant to be together." How are those parallels not deliberate?

I do agree that her story hasn't been handled as well as many of the other characters, and a lot of it (particularly her scenes with Jack) are cringeworthy. But I think you're misinterpreting the reason. It's not that she's in love with Jack, it's that he represents everything she thinks she's supposed to want, everything that's good. She told him after their disastrous kiss in What Kate Did, "I'm sorry I'm not as good as you." And then where did she go? Straight back to Sawyer's bedside, where he woke up, she realized he wasn't like Wayne, and then together they saw the black horse. Kate's first impressions of these two men were that one was bad and one was good - one she SHOULD fall in love with (Jack) and one she SHOULDN'T(Sawyer.) But as her mother told her, "You can't choose who you love." And as Kate and the audience has come to see, first impressions are often wrong. Sawyer turns out to be the kind of guy who wants nothing more than to settle down, and Jack is the raging alcholic who screams at her. Which one represents Wayne, again?

I've always respected your views on the show, Ryan, but I think the fact that you don't enjoy the love triangle aspect may mean that you haven't paid enough attention to it. Don't just glance at the surface and assume THE TWO LEADS MUST BE IN LOVE AND END UP TOGETHER. If the show was that lame and unoriginal, I wouldn't still be watching it. The triangle is an occasionally interesting and often annoying story device, but only one side has actually been written as a romance. Hell, Kate and Sawyer even have their own love theme. Where's Jack and Kate's, if he's "the love of her life?"

I was looking forward to Kate Austen week, but I'm disappointed. I think the fact that you don't like her means you probably haven't made much of an effort to understand her story arc.

"When we talk about fan favorite characters, I've rarely heard her name come up."

Well, for what it's worth, she's always been one of my favorite characters, ever since the wonderful "sewing scene" in the pilot. Then again perhaps I have to disqualify myself since (as I think I mentioned in a post a while back) I don't think I hate any of the characters.

Perhaps I just don't understand the concept of hating characters. I guess my hate is reserved for the fortunately rare but mind-bogglingly poor moments of bad writing in a show which is generally so well written. (I think the mystery of how these shocking lapses happen is perhaps as great a mystery as anything on the island.) (Possible topic, Ryan?)

Oh wait! I do hate Paulo and Nikki! (Thank the maker, now I don't have to disqualify myself after all!)

"...we'll deal with... what I feel is the strongest part of Kate's role on the show: her relationship the long-lost Claire."

Looking forward to it!

"...her character is often portrayed as an obstacle to the plot, rather than the heroine of the story."

Once again I am reminded of a quote from Classic Trek (this time from "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky"): "But is that not the essential nature of men and women?"

By which I mean a big part of many men's lives is screwing up their lives in pursuit of a women.

Having said that, however, I must admit that your point regarding her being less a hero and more "perpetually captured" seems pretty on the mark even though I never really thought of it quite that way before.

I don't agree as much with your take on her backstory, however. Blowing up your mother's abusive boyfriend is nothing to sneeze at, nor is finding out that your mother is not only unappreciate but totally unforgiving and unwilling to ever see you again, even when she is in the hospital with cancer. Oh, and let's not forget the "little detail" that the abuser she blew up was actually (if I understand and remember correctly) her biological father.

And, if that isn't enough for ya kids, she also accidently killed her big teenage love after he became a doctor!

Can any of us really say what we would be like if we had gone through all that Kate has? I suspect we might indeed be pathologically obsessed with possessing an object that we once buried in a time capsule with that teenage love in a time so long ago. A time when she still thought it was possible that she could run away with him. A time before she murdered her father and long before she accidently killed him. A time when life still contained great hope and possibilities.

"Sawyer is Han Solo, the romantic lead. Jack gets the mythological destiny."

"Sawyer turns out to be the kind of guy who wants nothing more than to settle down, and Jack is the raging alcholic who screams at her. Which one represents Wayne, again?"

Fascinating points, Kate Fan! I never thought of them before, but it sounds spot on!

(I just read your comment now as apparently we were both furiously writing our above comments at the same time.)

Thanks, "concerned". I agree with your point about character hate being a strange phonomenon. I've never hated anyone on Lost - even Paulo was fun with his constant bathroom references. Lol.

I do want to clarify something from my earlier post, though. I believe it's accurate to say that *Kate* is the love of *Jack's* life. Just not the other way around. That's Jack's tragedy when it comes to romance. This is why they've made it a point to have him witness so many of Kate and Sawyer's intimate scenes, like their cage cuddling post-sex and the helicopter kiss/jump. This is why he flipped out and started yelling at Kate when he realized she was doing favors for Sawyer off the island, when he thought he'd finally gotten rid of the guy and had a chance with her. I think Jack knows he's second in her heart, and he resents the hell out of it. This season he told her "You didn't like the old me either," when she commented that she didn't like the new Jack. He knows he can't really compete with Sawyer in the romance department.

And really, if Jack had been written differently, I would probably feel bad for the schmuck and root for Kate to come around. But this is the guy who has spent most of his time with her bossing her around, condescending to her, refusing to trust her, and making her cry and apologize to him. I like Jack, but not when he's around Kate. The pairing does something horrible to them both. I honestly don't think we're meant to see it as some big love story. They are the two leads and their relationship is very important, but my guess is that Jack will die in the end and make that ultimate sacrifice for Kate so that she can be with the guy he knows she really wants to be with. Sawyer has already been prepared and willing to die for her twice (kneeling to take a bullet in "I Do" and jumping out of the helicopter.) It's time for Jack to man up. I think part of his redemption will be letting Kate go, *because* he loves her.

Kate's an interesting character in the sense that she's not that interesting when, on paper, she should be. Because "concerned" is right, the writers have definitely made a point to underline the fact that she's had a Very Dramatic Backstory. But regardless of that, Kate's not a very interesting character because in almost every scene she's in, she's entirely reactive. Like Ryan said, she's more a lightning rod than a real person, 90% of the time she exists to create Jack/Sawyer drama.

I'm kind of excited for the column about her relationship to Claire, because that's by far when she's most interesting. Although, I don't think it's just that - Kate's interesting when she's around Sun as well, or even to a certain extent, Sayid. Generally, she's interesting when she's not around Jack or Sawyer. Because when she is, she gets transformed into a plot contrivance, and no amount of exciting or tragic back story can really make up for that.

I was kind of okay with Kate--until Juliet came along. Juliet is a more intriging, more vibrantly written character (ie, the writers had fun writing for her). i think jack and kate have become wishywashy cutouts whose actions have been directed by the need of the plot instead of out of the characters nature.

i think one of the key motifs defining a LOST central character is daddy issues, then we have jack, locke, sawyer, ben, and kate who have daddy/step-daddy/ authority issues. jack, ben, and locke's stories still have to be played out but kate and sawyer's stories seem over.

(I THINK walt/michael story was going to be central but fell apart when perrenieu left and because kelley was aging too fast.)

Argh, I am already dreading the quadrangle article if only b/c I will have to skip reading the comments. :) Kidding, sort of. But! I have never hated Kate. She's enormously frustrating, and I certainly understand why some people do. I just liked her a lot until about mid-season 2 when she was pretty annoying. Seasons 4 and 5 are ones in which she hasn't bothered me that much and I forgot how annoying she was in 2-3. That's my perspective anyway. I really think she's written sloppily, which confuses me because, as you said, she is intended to be one of the leads. Why don't they tend her character with more care? Unless they think they are? Do you think they believe they've written this bad-a** female protagonist?
Kate is so weird, but I do like her and I mostly root for her to ...well, be smart. If she finds Claire and does the right thing in terms of Aaron (oh wait, she did give him to his rightful guardian I guess) then I'll be happy.
It's also gotta suck to have to compare to Juliet.

Damn. I thought for once that someone would actually do some proper work and try to understand this character and her arc instead of taking the easy way out and just writing her off as some love interest. Then I read the part where Kate was captured by this person and again here and don't forget this time. Really, who cares and why are those 3 instances important in understanding her character. Seems like lame reasons to hate on her. So is the Kate hate justified? No, not by a longshot. You took the easy way out here.

I don't agree that Kate is only a lightning rod or plot contrivance for the two men. The triangle seems to be very much her story, as much as, if not more so than, the two men's. From her initial impressions of them (Bad & Good, Black & White) which mixed with her daddy issues, and her need to force herself to be a "good" person and avoid "bad" things, to her later committment issues with Sawyer on the island and then Jack off of it, it's very much related to her own personal issues and character arc. Though I do agree that her story with Claire and Aaron was a refreshing change of pace from her love life.

I'm too tired to think of what I want to say, but I thought this post from someone called Our Skies Lead to Your Destiny at The Fuselage forum was interesting. It made me think about the love triangle and Kate's role in it in a way I hadn't before, and the triangle's role in the series as a whole. I hope they don't mind me posting it here.

"The relationship between Sawyer and Kate has nothing to do with more sexual tension or better looks or hotter kisses! It is, and has been since Confidence Man, a matter of surviving. I never cared about pretty boy Sawyer the least bit until that episode. You just watch that first-kiss-scene again and you will realize there is a guy who is just about to get lost for good, and is practically saved in the last minute - with that kiss. It is exactly that scene that starts the character development that leads this same guy to rescue girls out of burning houses some weeks later. It was a matter of destiny for those two to find each other. But it would be pretty boring if they had realized it about five minutes into the pilot, as seemed to be the case with Jack and Kate instead. Now we have been shown that those two don't need any obstacles between them to screw it up. And as important as it was in Season 04 to show that Jack and Kate don't work out, it was equally important to show in Season 05 that Sawyer and Juliet worked out just fine - until Kate arrived. Why? We have seen pre-island Kate in love several times, but never Sawyer. This is what Juliet was used for: To place Sawyer and Kate on one emotional level and to create another obstacle between them that would lead far into Season 06.

Of course there won't be any Skate in the first episodes. Of course Suliet was beautifully acted, of course they were in love, of course the last scene was heartbreaking. That was the plan all along. But it never had that quality about it that spoke of sharing a soul. I can't believe I am using such words here. But it is the one thing about Sawyer and Kate they showed us in every minute detail, in looks, dialogue, music, plot. This isn't about two pretty people getting it on in some cages, it is about healing. It is something you can't express in words, but rather in looks and body language. This is why both of them are searching for words so often, this is what resulted in this sexual tension on the screen. This is exactly what the mature, outspoken, discoursive relationship between Sawyer and Juliet lacked. That was based on friendship and mutual consent, it was 'nice'. While Sawyer and Kate go down to the core. They mutually destroy each other's covering. They leave nothing behind but their inner core of personality. They shake up their fake worlds. They make each other recognize themselves. LaFleur was just another way of covering. It had nothing to do with what Lost as a series is about. Jack was as much a cover for Kate as Juliet was for Sawyer - they had to let go and they did. Their destiny is to find each other again and to prevent themselves from getting 'lost' - again. Lost is about identity vs. destiny in the end - so the triangle will play a significant role in the series, because it is one way to choose. You can choose between science and faith or between good and evil, but it won't matter the least bit if you don't know who you are. This is why the triangle is made of leading characters and why almost all triangle-centric episodes were written by either Damon or Carlton or both. The smoke monster is some sort of metaphor, Jacob and his enemy are biblical topoi, John Locke has all but gone over to the mythology of the story - they need characters like Sawyer and Kate for working on the 'identity'-side, while Jack and Locke will be working on 'destiny'. And in the end, identity and destiny will be realized to be one and the same. End of story.

I think this is far more important story telling than the story of a pretty and courageous girl becoming the sweet little nurse of a great (male) doctor! We don't need glittering representations of everyday life on Lost, we want to see those worlds crumbling, right?"