'Lost': Men of science and faith meeting in the middle
I try and read every comment that you leave here on the "Lost" blog. Not only was I not held enough as a child and therefore crave any and all attention that I can, but you guys quite often challenge and provoke in a way that makes me either refashion the way I think or spur me to think about elements in a brand new way.
And some comments, like the one below, compel me to not just write a quick comment in response, but an entire entry. It's not that I dismiss this comment below; it's just that it goes so contrary to the way that I personally view things that having both viewpoints in the same entry might be a way to illuminate a similar schism that may exist in the "Lost" fan community now.
Here's the comment, from "wooster182," in response to my desire to see a scene between Jack Shephard and the real deal John Locke in Season 6:
I don't know if there really needs to be a scene of understanding between Jack and Locke.
Locke's death has somehow propelled Jack to become a man of faith. Okay, more specifically, the fact that he's too spineless and dimwitted to keep Kate drove him to be a man of faith, but he believes John now.
What I find more interesting is that Jack has basically become Locke, following anyone blindly, feeling as though he has a destiny while Sawyer has fully taken Jack's position as leader and nonbeliever in destiny.
Locke's death has somehow propelled Jack to become a man of faith. Okay, more specifically, the fact that he's too spineless and dimwitted to keep Kate drove him to be a man of faith, but he believes John now.
What I find more interesting is that Jack has basically become Locke, following anyone blindly, feeling as though he has a destiny while Sawyer has fully taken Jack's position as leader and nonbeliever in destiny.
I started to address this before Season 5 started, but I'll continue the thread here, since most of the points are still valid. The title of Season 2's premiere episode, "Man of Science, Man of Faith" has a dual meaning. On a surface level, it's about the opposing viewpoints of Jack and Locke. But on a more fundamental level, it's ALSO offering a solution to their conflicting worldviews. It's not a question about which perspective is right. I think Darlton would argue (and have demonstrated) that neither is sufficient. Locke died a patsy; Jack ended up bearded, pilled, and suicidal.
The solution? Not a schism, but a fusion. I think wooster182 has the right idea that Jack turned into Locke this season, but in doing so, Jack missed the point. AGAIN. Another reader did a nice job in breaking down just how little these two titans of the show have actually interacted in the past three seasons. Each of those intermittent encounters was essentially a riff on the same themes, with little to nothing changing. Until, that is, Locke mentioned Christian.
The mention of his father sent Jack careening from one extreme to the other. Season 5 Jack surrenders to the flow. He finds fate in coincidence. He trusts instinct over logic. And while none of these are inherently bad things, they also require moderation. It's one thing to take an occasional leap of faith, to borrow the phrase Locke used to convince Jack to start pressing the button in Season 2. But it's another thing entirely to cede all personal responsibility and decision-making to some higher power.
I come down on Jack a lot, but here's a man that for five seasons has stuck to his stubborn guns in the vain hope to fix things around him. It's an understandable folly, and one that we as outside observers have the luxury of mocking. His utter and complete conversion to the Gospel According to Locke came after years of regretting the decision his head made on the Island. But in turning on his heart, he managed to shut off his brain. Big mistake.
And that's why I think there needs to be one final scene between the two men. Had they worked together from the outset, taking the best of their selves and incorporating it into their flawed outlooks on life, maybe things could have worked out for the better/best. One final encounter, still possible in the wake of John's death, is still possible on the Island. And in that encounter we'll finally see a new theme emerge. Understanding. Trust. Compassion. The fusion of science and faith. Mind and heart. Jack and Locke. After all, no man is an island. But on the Island, these two men can still become one.
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I'm pretty sure we'll see this final Jack & Locke reunion. It could go one of two ways:
1) New Locke is the Man in Black, of course. But it's significant that this Locke has most of the real Locke's memories and even some of his personality quirks; in essence, MiB "became" Locke in order to get his loophole. So Jack might have to face out his issues by confronting New Locke, which still has elements of the real Locke.
2) A better scenario would be that the spirit of the real John Locke lingers on. Much like Jack's father, who is still lurking on the Island in possibly two seperate but equal forms, the John Locke we knew might still be around, now free of mortality to guide Jack to his true destiny.
The only problem I have with this scenario is I'm far more likely to believe this "spirit guide" twist would go to Christian and having Jack interacting with two ghosts seems excessive.
But one thing for certain is that Jack has to strike the balance that he has failed thus far to achieve, and John Locke - who may have achieved that balance in death - could possibly be the one to get Jack there.
"The fusion of science and faith. Mind and heart. Jack and Locke."
I think you're spot on with this. And I think it's something important to understand, not just in the context of the show, but in real life as well.
Jack & Locke k-i-s-s-i-n-g?
Eww.
I'll revise my past comment in that while a face-to-face between Jack and Locke isn't going to happen, a spirit vision is not only likely, but probable (I wonder if John's old sweat-lodge is still around?). A vision of Locke will appear to Jack to deliver a V-8 slap to the forehead -
"You dimwit, I said I wish you BELIEVED me, not BECAME me!! Now the group is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys - go out there with all you've got and win just one for the Tippler!"
(Fight song swells and Jack delivers a bone-crushing sack to MiB)
Sorry, got carried away there...
So the four Gospels are Matthew, (Fox), Locke, John?
Does that mean we can call them "Jocke"? hee!
If jughead did indeed destroy a errant timeline, and the people that Jacob touched are in some way going to remember the past 3 years, then seeing season one with Locke and Jack working together would be great.
I don't think Jack just totally flipped sides all by himself. The Island's pull on him compelled him to switch from science to faith.
Ryan said, "The mention of his father sent Jack careening from one extreme to the other. Season 5 Jack surrenders to the flow. He finds fate in coincidence. He trusts instinct over logic. And while none of these are inherently bad things, they also require moderation. It's one thing to take an occasional leap of faith, to borrow the phrase Locke used to convince Jack to start pressing the button in Season 2. But it's another thing entirely to cede all personal responsibility and decision-making to some higher power."
Who says they require "moderation." I think what's missing in Ryan's arguement is the pull of the Island on Jack. The visions of his father off the Island, the breakdown of his relationship with Kate, his past life experiences and his experiences on the Island, led him to a change of philosophy, but perhaps the Island's pull on him ("We have to go back!") created the totally changed Jack. No moderation needed.
"these two men can still become one."
Why does the climax of the Dark Crystal keep popping up in my head?
Dark vs. Light, Science vs Faith, MIB vs Jacob, Jack vs. Locke. What we have here are opposing sides that are one half of a complete picture.
In my opinion, I think the clue that the "REAL" Locke returning - for at least one more reunion with Jack - is in "The Man Behind the Curtain", when Ben saw his mother.
This was a unique cir***stance, and I can't belive how often it is overlooked, especially when you consider how surprised Richard Alpert was when young Ben told him he saw his dead mother.
Unlike the other "ghosts", Ben's mother did not die on the island, nor was her body brought to the island. Kate's horse doesn't count because its an animal, and Dave doesn't count because he never existed.
To top it all off, Ben saw his mother from inside the Dharma camp - and from what we know - that means the smoke monster never scanned Ben.
While I admit that it seems like it would fit the MIB's agenda to mess with Ben like that - it doesn't fit the current pattern that we know. It is just as likely that Ben's mother's ghost really did appear to him.
And if a dead Mrs. Linus can appear to Ben, a dead Mr. Locke can appear to Jack.
as you said - considering locke and jack's relationship has been one of the central sparring themes throughout the show, i'd be shocked if the two didn't somehow meet up again. there has to be some kind of resolution to it. of course what that would be i have no idea.
hmm. interesting. how many of the main characters are there? it's like they are all spokes on the same wheel. all of them carry some element of your stereotypical human characteristic and each plays a specific role that contributes to the bigger picture. it's just unclear what the bigger picture is. i'm fascinated to see how this all plays out. i'm out of theories and ideas. i will just be quiet.